Gay couples prepare to marry in Connecticut

the courts will tell you how to live your life wayyyyyy more than the religous right well

And that is why we need to always have a balance of liberal and conservative judges on the Supreme Court, so that not just one group of people are represented!

G.H. that trick by the mormon fundamentalists for hate in california will be overturned as well -- God will see that right is done in this country that is supposed to represent democracy and freedom, equal rights for all!

to say 'get the flag out of here' -- i'm not sure what you mean, but this is a FREEDOM issue

Fundamentalists are dangerous to freedom, to democracy and to the constitution of America

wasnt george washington,thomas jefferson,and the rest of our forefathers fundamentalists crawl back in your cave

Good for conn.  for making a decision to protect the fundamental rights of our constitution instead of buckling to the oppressive nature of these organizations. 

"..God will see that right is done in this country..."

God did not create Adam and Alan, he created Adam and Eve.

God created us all. 

Don't base your opinions on the bible, it's stupid. That thing has more contradictions than any book out there. It says one thing in the old testament, then cancels that in the new one. We don't we kill people that don't keep the sabbath, which is pretty much 99% of America, or why don't we kill disobedient children like it says there. Please dudes, say something else, your bible has no meaning.

now you libs speak for God??

Founding Fathers were not "fundamentalist christians" These were thinking men.. and.. and while having deignated rel. affiliations were generally "deists" philosophically. Generally tolerant men who drafted a balanced constitution and absolutely avoided a theocracy. John Marshall stated the role of the courts well., Seapro..."It is emphatically the province and duty of the judiciary...to say what the law is. We must never forget that it is a constitution we are expounding...intended to endure for ages to come,and consequently, to be adapted to the various crises of human affairs." I think we should also consider Felix FRankfurter..a generally conservative justice.."Fragile as reason is and limited as law is as the institutionalized medium of reason, that's all we have standing between us and the tyranny of mere will and the cruelty of unbridled, undisciplined feeling"

Why do you call me a God hater? For quoting some USSC justices? I wonder..is it because I said the founding fathers were not "fundamentalists"? I am neither fond of nor have much respect for a husband who has divorce papers served on his wife in the hospital for breast cancer. IF Newt says in his book that the FFs were fundamentalist Christains (as we use the term today)...he is as full of false info as he has always been. Would you consider me wicked fro calling Geo Bush , "Shrub"? Would you consider yourself wicked for calling am a "God hater"?

I don't understand why they want to be married in the eyes of the Church, or the eyes of the law?  Marriage comes from the eyes of God.  Do you believe that God santifies your marriage?  Or do you believe that gay marriage is un-natural? 

You may recieve the lawful right to marry....but don't EVER BELIEVE that GOD accepts your sin.  The Creator loves each & everyone of us.  But He does not, love our sin.

When you know God's word....how can you continue to defie Him?

yes trco we do speak for God as much as anyone -- Jesus, you may or may not recall, was for the downtrodden, the outcasts and those hated and hurt by society

Marriage comes from the eye of God?? There lies the rub...many many people recognize civil marriage as separate from marraige as sacrement...(See for example, France..married first by the civil official..then IF you like, in the church.) See in this country(USA)..get a wedding license...then get mattered in the church or not in the church, eg by a judge. Neither God's eyes nor the church issues marriage licenses..See the role of the state??? Civil laws...We are not a theocracy (Iran is a theocracy)

Some of us do want to hear about the Bible and that is our right so please don't try to take our right away to make your point, thanks

I have a lot of gay frieds who dont care if the church accepts their union, all they want is that the federal goverment gives them the same rights and responsabilities. There might be sanctity in some heterosexual marriages but for the most part they are a dissaster.

maureen say what you want but do not be surprised when it is not accepted - that is OUR right

and I -- a deep and consistent follower of God -- do not appreciate your twisting lies about God and God's word to justify your hate

DXB 002,

"Don't base your opinions on the bible, it's stupid....."

Hmmmm.

The first mention of God was made by a pro homosexual marriage poster.  Post #4.5  In that case, I agree, it is stupid.

If tow consenting adults want to get married who are we to object in anyway?

Aren't we proud of you GH.....Your volcabulary lacking?

many of the "christians" (christians for hate) on this site are saying "love the siin hate the sinner" or is it love the sinner hate the sin.....

either way, those of you spouting this highly offensive quote -- please understand that decent, God loving, thinking people see the contradiction inherent in this quote that  you all seem to find quite clever

get the logs out of your own eyes please before you start worrying about the splinters in the eyes of others

and start THINKING if you all thought you would realize how that quote which you use to justify your hate SOUNDS good but is actually not only nonsesical but is demonstrative of your narrow  minded hate and fear filled efforts to force other people to live under your yokes

just b/c you decide someone is a sinner does not make them actually sinners......

guess what -- YOU are not God!

get over yoursevles...

... and step away from my Constitution.......

I am a straight woman...and hope to one day be married to a straight man.  If our neighbors are gay and decide they want to get married, how exactly does that change my life and my marriage?  It doesn't.  If I were gay, I would hate for anyone to tell me that it is illegal to marry the person I love.  Congratulations Connecticut.

Well stated Jeneral!!  Neither my wife nor I are threatened in our marriage if a couple who happen to be same-sex get married.  It would in no way diminish our love for each other, nor would it somehow make our marriage hollow.  I am so tired of the Religious Reich out there trying to dictate to everyone else how they should act, speak and think.  They have their own, warped, idea of the Creator, and others of us, the vast majority to be accurate, have our own views.  Stop the hate and stop the mind control.  In 21st Century US no one is buying it any more except those who are lemmings and need the comfort of being told how to act.  The majority of us are adult enough to think for ourselves.

Well, Jeneral....what will you do if there are NO men to marry?  What would you do if we become a dominant homosexual state as Sparta was?  You ceast to exist....that's what!!!  How will you feel when your gay next door neighbors want to come over & seduce your husband?

Remember when God sent the Angel of the Lord (that's Jesus) to Sodom & Gomorriah?  They gay men came to Lot's house & said, "Let us have sex with your men visitors."  Lot said, "I'll give you my virgin daughters, just leave these men alone." 

Do you remember what happened next???  boom!!!

more fool me G.H. I gave you the benefit of the doubt assuming you said "flag" rather than the hate filled vile word you actually used -- Christians for hate march on

hahahaha Crock that is hilarious

allowing gay marriage will turn all men gay

hahahahah --yeah jeneral  you (& I) better grab straight men while there are some left -- as the gays TAKE OVER THE WORLD all men not already married will become gay

hahahahhahhahah good one Crock

R-C I think your observation is not very real. The  gay population is not as big as you think, and how can a gay man seduce a straight man? and if it happends then he was not that straight to beging with.

Dian...there are only two left!  You grab one and I'll grab one before one is gone and we have to fight over the last!  It's going to happen!!!!

It's like a new plague!  Grab one while you still have time!

This nation is becoming a nation of perverts.  Our new Muslim-leaning president needs to tell us what happens to gay perverts in the Islamic world.  This is an issue that is clearly sinful in the Koran, the Bible, and many cultures. 

TS And not in many others....--so you think we are becoming a ANOP? SO do I... Many perversions fo important human and constitutional values in the last eight years...You should have been worrying about them

You might want to consider changing your name "truthseeker".  There you go again with trying to equate gays as being perverts.  Ignorant people paint with a very broad brush you know. You do not like it when ALL christians are equated with the same broad brush (fundamentalist, whacko Fred Phelps bigots) so why do you do it?

You do know about  the "do unto others .." ?

You appear to be just another cherry picker when it comes to the Bible.

This reply is also for trco who also equates gays as being the same as beastiality and other perversions.  Silly . Downright silly.

the jeneral is so right -- I am a heterosexual -- I was born heterosexual -- it is not within me to be other than heterosexual

Gays are sent to earth by God gay as I was sent here heterosexual

regardless of whether you believe in God as our maker or not -- the reality is that gays come to earth gay -- do you HONESTLY think they would willingly subject themselves to what you gay-haters put them thru -- restriction of rights and name calling and lynching and so much more hell?

allowing gays the same rights as those I freely enjoy does not threaten me, my future husband or my children in any way shape or form

conversely -- God will certainly frown on me if I am unkind to gays (or to any group) or seek to make any one's or any group's lives harder than they need to be or if I judge anyone or any group -- etc.

God expects me to treat everyone with tolerance and acceptance

When I attend church and read the Bible and teach Sunday School it is abundantly apparent that God only dislikes those who are self-rigtheous and falsely pious or greedy liars, etc. nothing about making gays change the way God made them

And as for your cries "oh but the bible says so" i say "oh but the bible also says a man can have 100 wives and I can sell my daughter into slavery" and I beg to differ

It is like that man who was running the mormon cult who wanted to be able to force young girls to have sex with him so he claimed he had a vision from God that he was supposed to have as many wives as he wanted and hence the dishonesty and abuse of polygamy was born -- and we all saw those polygamists on national TV with their fixed smiles and blank stares and brainswashed ravings -- their poor kids who are abused in many ways, including the fact that they do not smile or laugh or run b/c they are told laughing is a sin....

those polygymasts just wanted to be left alone -- they did not want to force their views on everyone -- I for one however feel they should not be allowed to  have kids and thwart more lives -- but no one asked me and luciky for us all  my ideology is not the rule of the land.....

nonetheless -- in bush's regime -- in the blank stares of the polygamist women -- in Palin's smirk while she roused her supporting rabble to shouts of KILL HIM and SIT DOWN BOY -- in the KKK web site and "Christian" telephone answering machine -- I see that fundamentalism is dangerous tyranny and antitheticl to freedom and democracy

I've seen gay's rape a straight man.  So don't give me your B.S.  I've been in a gay man's house.  There was Vaseline everywhere....& it smelled like phoo!  Yuck!  How un-natural is that????  Isn't that how you guys get AIDS?  Isn't that How AIDS got in this country....was one homosexual flight attendant?  Spread it all over San Fran.  So, because of that one person's sexual perversion, 1.2 million have it in the U.S.  The tax payers have paid out over 300 billion dollars for this epidemic....just in the state alone.

Why don't you Gay Righter's pay toward this 300 billion dollars that you have cost the U.S. already.  Why don't you help out the land you love on. 

you've seen gays rape a straight man......that's terrible..

...and i've heard lots and lots and lot thru the ages about straight men raping women

WHAT'S YOUR POINT CROCK?

and TYLER THANK YOU for suspending G.h. for using that word!

LOL jeneral -- let me leave work right now so i can grab my last-chance-straight-man before he crosses the border into CT......

R.Crockett...there is just SO MUCH wrong with what you said.  I can't even get angry, I am so flabbergasted.  You have NEVER been in a gay man's house, I can tell.  EVER.  Vasiline everywhere?  EVERYWHERE?  Smelled like poo?  All gay men RAPE other men?  Wow! Where have I been?

Dian...Hurry up!  Cause once the single straight men go to Connecticut, they're going to be men rapping poo smelling Vasiline addicts!  Damn you, Connecticut for turning all our straight men gay! 

Unbelievable.

Diane....Let the Gay Societies pay the money they have cost the United States of America for the Aids that homosexuality spread.  It that unfair?  You want to let the gays have all these Special Rights.....then let them pay for the disease that they've spread.  

When they get before the Judge up there in Conn. they can pay a $500 hundred thousand dollar tax.  Since the gay community is such a small one, they will have to divide up the 300 billion that they have cost this country.  Marriage by Marriage 

To Dian & Jeneral....it's been cheap entertainment.  Diane & I go at it all the time.  I just saw your last post Jeneral....gosh you get excited.  Don't let all this get to you.  Everybody as there opinions just like .....well you know what.

R-C

I seriously dont think you can be serious, what about all the gay dollards who pay for cancer patiences and for babie of US sitizens who have no money to pay for it, or all the gay money that gay people donate for many many good causes what do you say to that?

Tina...that is good to hear.  But, let's get back to the 300 billion!!!  Pay on that.  You caused it. 

Crocket, you're posting that imply that the AIDS epidemic are the result of homosexual intercourse are pure nonsense. Have you ever, in your life, read a book? Or do you just flip through the quotes of interviews with Anne Coulter?

HIV is not and never has been limited to the gay community. It just happened to have been discovered there. Ignorance like yours is the greatest threat that causes the spread of HIV. It has nothing to do with sexuality.

I have a question. The law states marriage is between a man and a women, why don't you gays create a law which defines same sex marriage, but do not call it marriage, come up with a saying that defines it for you just as marriage defines if for a man and women?

What I battle with is you want your sexual preference or lifestyle to have rights or should I view it more as a culture?

Trco Wrote

now you libs speak for God??

Don't know about that.But one thing is clear the  so called christian right in this country sure doesn't.

Hi ,

I totally agree.  we need to stop the religious arguments,fights. let htem get married.

I am married and it won't hurt my family.

It is time to open up our eyes and hearts

To Diane, Well if it's so funny about "No guys left" to you....What happened to Sparta??? 

To Zom Zom....yes I do read, that's how I know when & where AIDS came into this country?  Do You?  one male stewardess from Amsterdam, that landed in San Fran.

Hey look guys & dolls....Why don't you all run over to the San Andia fault & have a Gay Pride Parade.  I hear the big ones coming.  No...it's not a sex joke, it's an earth.   quake !!!

A very close friend of mine is gay. He has stated on several times he likes the challenge of getting a man to question his sexual orientation. I asked him why would you do that? I mean you can't really think you can change a person orientation. He said it was fun to get loved to get straight guys thinking.

Crockett, your story is a crock. There is no conclusive evidence to point to how or when HIV entered the US.

It is believed to have come from Haiti into the US at some point during the 60s, and that's all that we know about it. We know that a patient known as Robert R. died of it in 1969, and he may or may not have been a male prostitute. He began showing signs in 1966, and had not been outside the country, so we know that it was here before then.

This is the first known case in the US, and was discovered in St. Louis, Missouri.

And, by the way, genius: There's no such thing as a "male stewardess." We call those "stewards." Learn to conjugate.

Get the bundle of sticks out of here?

I don't follow...

While I have heard the opponents of gay marriage say that they have a right to claim ‘traditional’ marriage only for heterosexuals and that they have the right to also oppress what they view as unnatural, it leads me to wonder how they can justify illogical hatred against another human being.

Is it religion that drives them?  I personally have never been an Old Testament bible thumper.  Here is where preachers and pastors provide illustrations of Sodom and Gomorrah and lines of how God hates homosexuality in order to coerce their followers into believing everything that comes out of the Old Testament.  However, in all my years I can’t get a spiritual leader or advisor to that can convince me to believe these lines, no more or less than they could convince me of other fables of the bible. 

As how could Adam and Eve be the father and mother of us all when they only had three sons? One of them was murdered the other one left wed the daughters of Nod ( a civilization that apparently was already there. )

Or maybe it was the separation of the races that occurred, after the infamous building of the tower of Babel.  Never could figure that one out, we’ve since been to the moon and back.

Noah’s ark?  Maybe the lack of room on the ship can explain what happen to the dinosaurs millions of years ago. 

There are religious leaders (not all, of course) that want our government to be influenced by words of a book that can’t be verified, a book that condones polygamy, stoning, and prohibits eating pork and shellfish. 

If we base everything on the bible what’s next imprisoning people who work on the Sabbath day? Or maybe we should corral post-pubescent women every month for being ‘unclean’?

Maybe it is science that drives them?  They are those who believe that homosexuality is unnatural.  Most probably haven’t spent time studying the issue and are regurgitating rhetoric that they over heard.

They are numerous of studies that show that human beings are one of the 3000+ species on this planet that engage in homosexual activity. (Let’s not forget the whiptail lizards reproducing without any male contribution :P) 

Secondary sexual characteristics are defined when the brain is formed in the womb.   Androgen levels that both baby and mom produce alters how the masculine or feminine the resulting child would be.  What about hermaphrodites? Where do they fall in this discussion?

There isn’t enough time to discuss the twin concordant studies, brain autopsies between heterosexual and homosexual, and the genetic markers that have all displayed increased incidence for homosexuality. 

Though I may not be a devout Old Testament follower, I do consider myself a Christian. Jesus was a man who consorted with the poor, who took pity on prostitutes, and even as he died, forgave a confessed criminal. 

 Too many people are busy pushing their own agendas they forgot the basic principles of love, forgiveness and tolerance that the bible teaches.  To these people I leave off with two quotes:

Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen. John 4:20

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.  Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you.  Depart from me, you evildoers.'  Matthew 7:21-23

sorry that came out a lot longer than anticipated.  Plz take time to hear me out, then tell me what you think.

Question....why do gays want to be married?  I mean, whats the point?  Just wondering.

Thats a good question...I believe it is for monetary reasons... this way one can have tax advantages.

Since most of the people in this discussion is for Gay Marriage...then maybe we do need to DELETE "GOD" from the premises of Government!

yes trco we do speak for God as much as anyone -- Jesus, you may or may not recall, was for the downtrodden, the outcasts and those hated and hurt by society

!#4.16 - Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:10 AM PST

Yes, Jesus did help out the "outcasts" and such....and every time he was teaching a "sinner", He ALWAYS told them to go their way AND SIN NO MORE. He ALWAYS made sure he made it clear that there were rules that needed to be obeyed. He NEVER told them that their sins were "OK", or to continue on with their actions.

Spike, you don't have a freakin' clue what your "god" said....u weren't around then I suppose, and there is NO written word of god anywhere in the Bible about who created who. The book was written by a bunch of mortals MANY years after the "facts". Go place your wayward ideology somewhere else. IF there's a "god" I'm sure he'd rather see people, however and whatever they are, to LOVE, not hate.

You people really are clueless aren't you. You've all been bainwashed by the liberal leaders of this country until the only thought on any subject is live and let live. How passive. Not only is homosexuality unnatural , it is unsafe. Did anyone else read the article about the two men infected with HIV who drugged 14 other men and in turn injected them with HIV tainted blood. Do you think this would have happened if the men were infected with the measels.NO HIV,AIDS is an unnatural punishment disease. Don't share needles or put your penis where it doesn't belong and the odds are great you won't get it. Wake up you puppets.

John: What does you story have to do with homosexuality? Did you hear the story that one in five women will be raped at least once? You think that, what, these men were pieces of trash because they were gay? Plenty of men are pieces of trash. What is the point of your story besides fuling prejudiced, hateful rhetoric?

HIV can be spread through heterosexual sex perfectly well, by the way. Just ask one third of the population of South Africa.

Could you people who believe that HIV is somehow related to homosexuality possibly be more ignorant? There are 900,000 people in the USA who are HIV positive. You are sorely mistaken, and extremely foolish, if you think that this terrible disease affects only gay men.

Conn should no longer be considered part of the United States, remember one nation under GOD.

The "under God" wasn't added to the Pledge until the 1950s. Try again.

God does'nt approve of a man "marrying" another man.

Which God? The Christian/Jewish/Muslim one? The Hindu's gods? The god of the several dozen other religions represented in the US? This isn't a Christian theocracy, you know. That means religion has no place in our laws.

And anyone who tries to remove GOD from anything in these United States of America does'nt have to be here, it's a big world  and God is in the blood of every real American in this country and that will never change!

Tell that to Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison... all Deists or agnostics, not Christian.

John: Did you know that lesbians have the lowest STD risk in the world? The highest risk group is gay men, but that's on the decline as straight men's risk rises.
And men are also the largest consumers of injected street drugs - one of the big contributors to the spread of AIDS. I'm afraid your assumptions failed.

I am for gay marriage - who am I to withhold rights from ANYONE -- but that is not the point

the point is the Constitution of the United States of America -- equal riights for all -- freedom -- all that stuff that America is supposed to represent

the Courts are supposed to uphold the Constitution and have to overrule any law or vote or what have you  if it is unconstitutional

fundamentalists are entitled to practice christianity for hate if they so desire -- we have freedom of religion in America -- but they are NOT entitled to force their indeology on the rest of us -- then we will no longer have freedom of religion, freedom of thought or expression and we will no longer be a free democracy

it is time for decent Americans to stand up for freedom and democracy and stop pandering to Christians for Hate & Intolerance -- speak out against fundamentalist rule if you value freedom

There should never be a vote on fundamental rights.  They must be protected for all, and it is unconstitutional for california or any state vote into law something that will oppress the minority.  I think the recent vote will get overturned by the supreme court. 

Let's not forget before the 60's the majority of the population also thought segregation was a good idea.

the next sexual perversion group, say people who participate in beastiality will claim they are bring discriminated against and we will have people wanting to marry their dog or cat or chicken.

perverting what sex was intended for does not constitute a social class.

In 1958 "the people" were overwhelmingly against inter-racial marriage.  "the people" are sometimes mislead by divisive rhetoric, and ballot measures that disinfranchise a segment of the citizens of this country are contradictory to the Civil Rights Act, the Bill of Rights, and humanity.  The Supreme Court's job is to interpret the Constitution and make judgements based on That, it is the Job of the Supreme Court to second guess "the people" because "the people" are frequently wrong.

When you "let the people decide" on a civil rights issue, you end up with "Separate but Equal." Letting the people decide in the post-Civil War south resulted in massive segregation, because Whites considered themselves superior to Blacks...just like many heterosexuals deem themselves superior to homosexuals.

But the problem is that this is a civil rights issue. We're dealing with a fundamental right of equality...not something to be legislated or voted on.

Dian Larken, aren't you the one who is upside down on your mortgage?  Seems like all the states & people that are for gay rights are in deep do do!!!  Ha Ha Ha  The 3 states hit by the sub-prime mess, seem to be the farest away from God & for gay rights.  Wonder if it's a correlation, or all the people that live in those state just have phoo for brains!!!  Which is it???  

TRCO...see quote of Frankfurter... re your last comment..However...get this..CONSENT...to engage in sexual activity within the law and to get married.....the participants haev to eb able to consent...get it??? Required by the law..(Though not in some Morman sects...unfortunately) No consent--no marriage,,,The chickens are saved

Say, Crockett...you sure do follow the teachings of Jesus...Your intellectual prowess is a little underwhelming ..

A comment above talks about equal rights for everybody.

The way I read the article, Connecticut offered a civil union with all the rights of marriage.

Yet the person in the article did not get a civil union, citing that, despite all the rights being there and the fact that the only difference is the name "marriage" they did not think it was "enough"

They say the term "married" would be "validation"

Is validation a right?  We are supposed to be in a country where you can think and say what you want and often do what you want if doing so doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

Can't it be argued that being forced to "validate" somebody else's beliefs, ones that you don't agree with, is infringing on your rights?

It seems to me that proponents of gay marriage that will not accept a civil union which is identical in everything but name are trying to ram their belief system down the throats of other people.  Personally, I don't care if gay people want to be married.  With all the infidelity and divorce and such, marriage is kind of a joke anyways.

But I don't like the idea that people are going to courts to try to force acceptance and "validation" on other people.  If they want to go to courts to protect their rights, fine.  And I think they should be able to have every protection and benefit hetero couples enjoy.   But I am not sure they should be able to go to the courts to redefine a word in order to make everybody else "validate" their behavior.

uh...crock...i don't have financial problems or mortage issues...what the hell are you talking about? just sayin'

crock...i'm not hurting in the mortgage department either and i'm a big fan of marriage equality. you can believe what you want but when to try to legislate that belief in order to deny rights to a specific group of people...that is bigotry plain and simple along with attempting to establish a religion which of course in unconstitutional.

the courts have every right to uphold the constitution (which of course is there constitutionally mandated purpose) especially in the face of a tyrannical majority vote. just because an idea is popular doesn't mean it is just.

People are so misguided when they vote, our fnding father knew that we didn't have the intelligence to vote properly, we vote for those who have no experience, no judgment, no character, but BOY CAN THEY SELL USED CARS (and themselves)  PT Barnum understood the concept, the idiots will go for anything.

No....all of you are an abomination in the eyes of God.  If the laws of the land give you these rights.....then they will be deemed unholy.  Plain & simple.

You are in the end times.  Doesn't that concern you knowing that Jesus is on his way...any day now.  Aren't you afraid that you will miss out on an eternity with our Lord & Savior?  Like I said, He loves you.....but he will not tolerate your sin.  Especially since you know what it says in His word.  Once you have turned away from him.....well, get ready to take the mark of the beast.

I'm trying to help you see the truth.  I'd rather tell you the truth....& it may hurt.  But, I rather tell you the truth than say nothing, so I don't offend you.....in hopes that you'll turn from the path that you on now.  And get on the path with Jesus 

So we are supposed to pay attention to your threats about "the end times" when all the other whack jobs that have said the same thing for centuries have been full of it?

Why do you believe in such myths?  Oh yea, you were brainwashed as a child...

crock won't you be surprised

when you meet God

and God tells you that, in fact, your hate and rantings and insults and bigotry and calling people sinners and abominations and seeking to withhold rights and so on was the sin?

won't it be hilarious and the joke will be on you when God tells you that the people who wanted to open their arms to include all and wanted to extend equal rights to all of God's children were right on?!

won't that be a hoot?

and BTW while I know I have plenty of things to accomplish on earth and i know God will give me the time I need to accomplish God's purpose for me I can't wait to see God and my husband who resides with God now when I pass over -- so your threat that I have to face God some day is really  not much of a threat to me! I can't wait (some days I can't wait more than other days......LOL) but unlike you i am not looking to start WWIII to hasten that day....

i told my 10  year old that fundamentalists were evil and he said "no ma they're just misguided"

maybe he is more innocent and closer to God than I am...maybe he is closer to the truth than I am

or maybe i have just lived longer and seen more evil perpetrated in the  name of God than he has....including this gay rights travesty (the travesty being those who want to withhold the righjts)

do any of you really believe that God is about withholding rights? what kind of God do you all believe in?

i had to apologize to my 10 year old and tell him of course he was right

then he went to the KKK web site to check it out and told me "ma they're fundamentalist christians and they have those sheet things for babies you are right they are evil...."

lorent....they aren't threats.  The phrophesies are lining up faster & faster.  These are scientifcally proven facts.  Scientist are studying the Bible right & left....I finding it to be all true.

I'd prefer fact....not fiction!!! 

you're right Crock and I for one totally believe the prophecy that proves S. Palin is the Anti-Christ....but that's an entirely different post isn't it...

"scientist are studying the Bible right and left......finding it to be all true"

*picks laughing self up from the floor*

What a bizzarro world the deluded Crockett dwells in.   I bet he is the same one that believes religion should be "respected".   Anti-science nutters need to be fought hard and long and denounced at every opportunity. 

I do have a medical question for you.  It is a difficult economic climate that we are in, & I'm looking for a sound investment.  Can you tell me if a male homosexual becomes incontinent out the back end as he ages?  If "Yes"....looks like adult diapers would be a good investment.  Almost thinking about inventing one with a "plug."  Do you think that male homosexuals might need a products like that?  Just a little product research.

Thanks for your help.

Diane,  I love messing with you.  You go bonkers!  I never said I hated anybody.  Remember that before you start your ranting.  Please do not teach your child hatred based upon your views of the world.  You live in Las Vegas.  I grew up there.  Difficult place for a kid to grow up.  I guess that's the reason I am the way I am to today.  I saw all the sin, & what it did to people.  As the city grew, the sin got worse.  Never got better. That's what concerns me today....it just keeps getting worse. 

Have a good night.  We will duke it out another day.!!

Comparing this to segregation is simply wrong. An entire race of people was displaced to this country, and then asked to live here with no rights among the people that brought them here and freed them. That was an atrocity.

I just cannot get myself to buy into a preference having the right to change a law, as I said before create a law which defines it for your culture, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it. I would think creating a law which defines a marriage between same sexes with its own name (not marriage) would be of more value and something all could agree on.

Time will tell:  "Comparing this to segregation is simply wrong"  No, you are mistaken this is segregation.  This is separating a segment of citizens from society for no reason other than prejudice.   Being gay is NOT a preference, or a life style, in my opinion it is a Gender!

I'm trying to help you see the truth.  I'd rather tell you the truth....& it may hurt.  But, I rather tell you the truth than say nothing, so I don't offend you.....in hopes that you'll turn from the path that you on now.  And get on the path with Jesus

Obviously the truth escapes you.

Constitutional Amendment #14:

  1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Separate isn't equal. Sorry, but it's just true. It was true then and it is still true today. According to this, either gay people have the right to be married just like everyone else OR NONE OF US DO.

We're going to fight about this for a while- possibly even a long while but the simple fact of the matter is that, it's going to happen. The Constitution of the United States of America is going to win out in the end whether some people like that fact or not. Claim whatever you want but that is the law of our land. Like it or lump it. Equal is Equal.

And you know what? I just got back from checking my husband. Seems to still be straight as an arrow to me and wait.... Actually, I think I do notice something a little bit diffrent about my marriage tonight. Tonight, I have this overwhelming urge to go and hug and kiss the man that I love happily knowing that I can but mad as hell that others are still  being told that they cannot.

I have to agree with you, but for one reason or another...Male to Female and/or Female to Male seems to work a lot better together than Male to Male or Female to Female.

Sorry...that I don't see it, but I've been around it because of friends that are that way.  I don't condem their belief, but it sure doesn't seem right.

I don't condem their belief...

Being gay is not a belief.

It's interesting that most of the comments here are merely emotional rants that say the same thing. One side says this unprovable subjective idea which they claim as truth and ask the rest to just buy in, and that side counters with an equally unprovable objective idea and asks the same.  Many jump on both sides agreeing or disagreeing without ever showing any semblance of intelligent thought, merely "I don't care what anyone around me does" or "The bible tells me it's true, so it is"  To believe that a book which is obviously flawed and has been continuously interpreted for countless philosophies can be the be all end all of truth is ridiculous.  And to say that somehow not caring about what your neighbors, your community, and your country do makes you more caring of your neighbor is equally asinine. Those who have intelligent things to say here are mostly ignored, which is telling.  It means that most people don't want to step back and think about this issue, merely react emotionally to it.  Usually the loudmouth in class is the most ignorant, and I believe the same is true here.  Kudos to all those who actually follow the idea of educated discourse in regard to this topic.  To the rest of you, you are all what is weakening America, whatever your view.

Lorent....you seem to miss the whole point...that ALL people are created equal under out Consitution, and this is simply a matter of equality. Would YOU in I suppose a heterosexual marriage be satisfied if our government allowed YOU only a civil union? I think not.

there are many forms of marriage. checkout the common law marriage. they live together and say they are married and after so many years? they are considered married. hum.. and they have to divorce in the courts. simple just say you are married and live together as a married couple ect. and that's that. doesn't matter if its steve and jack, laura and ashley why would anyone care what consenting adults call their union? waste of time, this country is broke, people are losing their homes, jobs,people going hungry, and the so called christain right has money to push this agenda? hum... and there are people to feed? help? hum... maybe they should put up some money for the bail out.

What I battle with is where you draw the line. Gays say they are being discriminated against because they should be able to live their sexual preference as they wish. Ok what about bestiality, men who love adolescent boys, polygamy, sex changes, where is the line drawn, or is it all part of our society and we just need to except it?

What people need to realize is you have the right to live your life how you wish, but there are consequences to your choice. However I expect a responce that "I was born this way" I had no choice, I can accept that.

"Can you tell me if a male homosexual becomes incontinent out the back end as he ages"

Actually, no.  The sphincter is a muscle, and like any other muscle, becomes stronger with use.  Bet you didn't know that Richard Simmons can crack walnuts with his butthole.

What people need to realize is you have the right to live your life how you wish, but there are consequences to your choice. However I expect a responce that "I was born this way" I had no choice, I can accept that.

So, then you support gay marriage? Good job.

By the way, a slippery-slope argument (if we allow this, we'll allow that later on down the road a la "if we allow homosexual marriage, who will stop pedaphiles") is a logical fallacy. The one does not follow from the other.

Furthermore: we don't allow pedaphellia because it does severe harm to people. It's not illegal because "sex with nine year old boys is icky." It's illegal because it causes severe emotional trauma that lasts for the rest of the child's life, and because we don't allow adults to coerce children into adult activities. Comparing that to sexual activities between two consenting adults, and pretending that there is some analogy to be made between homosexuals and members of NAMBLA is f**king ridiculous.

Bestiality we don't allow because we don't allow cruelty to animals, and it's pretty hard to demonstrate that a dog knowingly gives consent (although, I'll admit, there is serious ick-factor, as well).

Bestiality and pedaphilia are illegal. It isn't descrimination. It's about not allowing people to commit actions that harm other people. Comparing those acts to homosexuality is about as reasonable as comparing a husband to a pedaphile because his wife was a little kid, once upon a time. These things have nothing to do with one another.

wilberta it's the same thing about Palin's pregnant high school drop out daughter and older drug addict son -- with  Palin running on a 'family values' platform -- certainly I raise my kids better than she does and I do not pretend to be a family values paragon!

But Fundamentalism requires blind adherence, unquestioning acceptance, of dogma -- even when it is patently ridiculous and inherently contradictory.

And that is why fundamentalism -- be it in Afghanistan or America -- is antithetical to democracy and to freedom

Freedom requires questioning, thinking, thinking deeply, education and exploration. Those things are the enemies of Fundamentalism.

GO CT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Equal rights for ALL Americans.

NONE OF US ARE FREE  UNTIL ALL OF US ARE FREE!

To all those who wonder....Gay IS NOT a choice. 

My grandparents are straight, and they're deacons.  They support gay marriage.

Hopefully California will wise up as well.  This is a great moment for the state of Connecticut.

I have many gay friends who have more wonderful and stable relationships than my straight friends do.  If they decide to marry their significant others, all I want is an invitation so I can celebrate such a wonderful moment.  All should be able to marry if they want. 

thank god that california,florida,arizona chose to protect holy matrimony!!!!!

we will always do everything and anything to continue to protect matrimony between a man and woman!!!!!!!!

i pray that california never gives up on keeping it protected

How does gay marriage harm "matrimony between a man and a woman"?

Your grandparents are deacons and they approve gay marriage?  You can be a deacon and that's not going to get you to heaven either.  Apparently they haven't been spending enough time with God to find out that it is wrong.  Being Gay is a choice, it has not bee proven other wise.  If people didn't want to be gay, they would be at churches asking for forgiveness and healing.  You don't see that do you?  Homosexuality is a choice that people wanted way back in the Biblical times.  Read it.  1 Corinthians 6.  People wanted  gay activities and God gave it to them.  That's why the Bible says that they were given what they wanted with the consequences of not entering the kingdom of Heaven.

See that bugs me when people hate on the Bible without even reading it. 

Do you like blondes, brunettes or redheads?  If you like blondes, go to church to pray that you can be attracted to brunettes or redheads.  Won't make you stop liking blondes.  I guess you know?  Were you gay?  Did you go to church and it made your "gayness" melt away?  You shouldn't discuss things you have no knowledge of.  Complete ignorance.  And, FYI, my grandparents attend church every day.

Most of you seem to make the case that "You are born gay."  Now that abortion has been overruled....I believe it is going to be advantageous when it come to this issue.  I believe that the scientistare trying to get a "Gaydar Test for in the womb".  They put on the song, "Y.M.C.A.".....if the baby starts dancing, then we will know to abort...abort...abort.  Ha ha ha

crock we "make the case that you are born gay" .... because it's not a "sace" it's the truth.

The Jeneral,

Gay is a sexual perversion, nothing else.

End of story

So.... Crockett... Based on your previous posts, I'm assuming you're more of a Fundamentalist Christian, so that would mean you're against abortion, right?  What if scientists did create/find a "Gaydar Test for in the womb" and you found out your child to be was in fact Gay?  Would you have the child aborted?  Shouldn't you be against abortion?  Which is worse to you then, killing an unborn child or having a child that's gay?  I think you're contradicting yourself a little too much here.  Enough with the hate.

We should all embrace equal rights for marriage.  I'm proud of Conn, and we should all be, this is a step towards freedom for all.

According to what?  The bible?  Please.  Are you a homophobe?  Closeted? 

Hi Max....I think this is all so funny.  I can't help but laught at all this bickering.  I just said that as a joke.  OK!  I would never do that.  I would just raise that child up in God's ways, the best that I could.  And if he chose not to follow in God's ways....then I could only pray that he or she would return to Gods house.  I didn't think like this before I came to the Lord.  Nobody is perfect.  But God is pretty specific about sin.  He loves the person, not the sin. 

Jeneral, "No"  I just love to mess with you, because you go bonkers!  Ha ha ha 

Jeneral

Please you have more gay friends who have better relationships than your straight ones. What a dumb ass comment. Ok the straight couples are all screwed up and gays are not, thats why this is not passing.

Time will tell...yes, that is EXACTLY what I said!  Straights are screwed up, gays aren't!  Wow, you interpreted it very well!  I'm straight, sweetie.  My relationship is fabulous.  But, to be perfectly honest, gay couples have to deal with a lot more crap than a lot of straight ones do, because of people like you.  Builds the bond.  Interpret that however you want.

RPach..You are right also!  When gays are celebrating equal rights and their love, in the back of their minds they are thinking "nah nah nah nah nah nah!"  Pick up a book besides the bible.  I'm sorry that gay people are destroying your marrige and family values.  Aparently it didn't take much.  Hopefully one day you will find a stable relationship and feel comfortable in your environment.  Bigot.

tells us marrigae is worth nothing if two men can get married.

How stupid.. What a contrived "reason". 

If your marriage is worthless to you -it's because you don't value your relationship.

AreYouKidding.....are YOU kidding?? You didn't live in the time of the "bible" so you don't know jack, so stfu ya stuffed shirt which probably has "MORMON MORON" pasted all over it. How much time...I gotta ask...have you personally spent with god? Time...ZERO! Prove me wrong on that. As for gay being a choice, I KNOW you're off your rocker to assume that. Look at all the hated that befalls gay people...who do you know that would make a choice like that? Probably no-one because you're too close minded. Your god would be ashamed of you. Besides...take this point as the religious fanatic you seem to be....in the "great flood" there was Noah, his wife and children, and the rest of humanity was wiped out. So...when the flood subsided, there was only ONE family to repopulate the earth, and that sounds SOOOO like incest to me. Oh wait...did I miss some other imaginary land like the Land of Nod from the Adam and Eve fiction? You seriously need to go back and read your bible and understand it because you evidently missed the whole message, which was LOVE

good post. here is something very basic that most don't realize. God doesn't force anyone of us to do his or her will how can man? and if the so called christain right was in the business of doing the work of jesus? they would be too busy doing this work instead of putting their noses where they don't belong. how about they raise money to feed the poor in this country, and help another country? how about they raise money to help stamp out cancer ect? how about they raise money to help their fellow christains that are about to lose their homes? how about they tend their own bedrooms? marraige? how about they just stop using God  for their own nasty agenda?

Thank god that california,florida,arizona chose to protect holy matrimony!!!!!

we will always do everything and anything to continue to protect matrimony between a man and woman!!!!!!!!

i pray that california never gives up on keeping it protected

You can't use this argument unless dare to wander down the path of divorce,unwed mothers, absentee fathers.

AreYouKidding.....are YOU kidding?? You didn't live in the time of the "bible" so you don't know jack, so stfu ya stuffed shirt which probably has "MORMON MORON" pasted all over it. How much time...I gotta ask...have you personally spent with god? Time...ZERO! Prove me wrong on that. As for gay being a choice, I KNOW you're off your rocker to assume that.

my comment  #6.27

hmmm ...I must have confused you. I don't think being gay is a choice.

I have nothing against gays getting married. It shouldn't even be an issue.I was answering #7.13 -

and actually --I do not subscribe to any particular religion. I don't believe in religion, I believe in God.  We talk daily.

Oh.  AreYouKidding  LOLOL!! I didn't read that right  ooops! Oh kaaay....I'm pulling my head out and washing my hair.

Moral family values, Lady?  You mean the 50% divorce rate?  THOSE FAMILY VALUES?

By the way, I am against marriage anyway, as I celebrate non-monogamy.  BUT, people should be treated equally under the constitution.

People should be treated equally under the constitution, read the First Amendment. Freedom of religion. Gay marriage goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles, they are forcing churches to wed them and that is wrong. Legalizing marraige is also a bad example for children, it sends the wrong message, and the schools then teach children that homosexuality is acceptable. Homosexuality is not acceptable. Read Lev:20:13.

lady of the south you have it backwards as is typical of the Christians-for-hate groups

freedom of religion means you get to practice your religion as you decide you would like to do -- be your religion actual christianity, judaism, satanism or even Fundamentalists-for-hate, the latter group including sects like the KKK for example -- while the KKK should be outlawed they hide behind the fundamentalist relgion and therefore cannot be outlawed

but i digress

freedom of religion means we ALL get to practice our spirituality and religion -- NOT JUST YOU

and FREEDOM in America means FREEDOM FOR ALL - again, not just you

get over yourselves -- practice hate and call it religion if you want to but stop trying to force your closed minded ideology on the rest of the free world!

Gays get to marry b/c this is a free country guarnteeing equal rights to all -- what part of that do you people not get?

That's it...are you an idiot, Lady of the South??

Gay marriage in NO WAY violates the First Amendment. A church cannot be forced to wed ANYONE, gay or straight, that they don't want to. Both my parents are Christians, but because my mother was Greek Orthodox and not Catholic, the priest would not wed them in a Catholic church.

Read something other than that old, dusty Bible of yours.

eewww havsr you are so creepy ... so creepy .. is this your idea of God -- this dark place of hate & fear? eewww

I never mentioned god or religion, only your shame and indignity. Struck a nerve huh?

Gay marriage in NO WAY violates the First Amendment. A church cannot be forced to wed ANYONE, gay or straight, that they don't want to

Oh yes, that's what you people SAY, but once it's legalized, that's a different story.

Homosexuality is immoral, read Lev:20:13 and gay marriage is wrong. It is not right, and it is not right for the states to legalize gay marriage without the consent of the people of the state. You may think I'm hateful, but I'm not. I love the homosexuals like I love all of God's creations, I care about them, I want them to get help and seek guidance from the Lord. God loves them just like he loves you and me, and with God's help and guidance, homosexuals can remove themselves from their sinful lifestyle.

my shame and indignity? for what? are you assuming -- as you people make endless assumptions -- tht i'm gay? b/c I am not ....

It is not immoral to be a homosexual. It should be immoral to be ignorant.

Dear Lady of the South:

Have you never worn a blend of fabrics? How many people have you stoned to death for working on the sabbath? Have you REALLY never indulged in Shrimp Gumbo?

OH WAIT, that's right.. "Christians" only apply those absurd and ridiculous parts of the bible that are convenient to their personal agendas, they're not obligated to follow all of it. Who has the time, what with all the requisite hypocritical and un-Godlike judging of others?

Yours in those Dirty, Dirty Shellfish, (and bless your heart!)
MT

it's so funny all the posts being deleted are posts by "Christians" 

proving my point -- Christians-for-hate -- we can't allow them to interfere with our freedom!

"Gay marriage goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles, they are forcing churches to wed them and that is wrong."

Um, no. Legalizing gay marriage simply means that homesexual couples are free to marry in a courthouse or in any other civil ceremony. It does not force churches to marry same sex couples any more than the current marriage laws force churches to marry opposite sex couples who are not adherents of that faith.

I can't force a Southern Baptist Church to marry me because...I'm not Southern Baptist! Likewise, whereas I was raised Catholic (although I did not make my confirmation), my husband is not. We could have gotten married in a Catholic church, but the church would have required that I first be confirmed, and also that my husband attend religious classes with me to learn about a Catholic marriage and that he agree to raise our future children Catholic. Since we could not agree to those terms, no Catholic wedding for us.

Same thing with same sex marriage. If a particular church chooses not to wed same sex couples because it vioaltes their religious beliefs, they have the right not to do so.

Done. Case closed.

Please learn what you're talking about before you go off spouting your fears.

amanda your posts are excellent

Sounds like hate and judgement are your family values.  

Amanda..that is absurd. Get educated. In no way will the legalization of same sex marriages force any private church to perform their marriages. The church is still an private institution that can enact any 'laws' they wish on their confgregations. The idea that church's will be 'forced' to perform same sex ceremonies is ridiculous.

excuse me Amanda...I just realized you were rebutting some other bigoted, ignorant comment. Sorry for the confusion and thank you for your insightful post.

DC Smith, I read your first post and was like "um, did he/she even read what I said???" So thanks for the explanation.

Amanda...very good post. 

Lady of the South...If you know any gay couples that get married, are they going to ruin your family values?  Are they going to infect your home with their happiness?  Completely absurd.

Isn't it funny how the "God fearing Christians" are the main ones spewing hateful words. How does the way someone else lives their life effect you in such a way where you become so hateful? Jesus wouldn't like that! Tisk -tisk. Unless they force you to watch them have sex or something outragous how is it you can't just pay attention to YOURSELF and make sure YOU are living YOUR life the way YOU feel YOU should? Are you some perfect super human being that everyone should follow? I think not so basically if YOU just mind YOUR business and live YOUR life, YOU may be happier. Spewing hate doesn't prove your point or make you "Christian" as you claim. (harv & Lady) And Lady you sound like you are the second coming or something who is going to save homosexuals from their doom! Please get over yourself and just live your life. You act as if you have never sinned in your life? And this whole time your claiming to fear God and be this whollier than though Christian - you are judging people - I thought God was the only judge- please leave it up to him-mind your own business.

From one southern woman to another AMEN!!! Being "gay" is a choice and it is a perverted choice!

lilegend...Hooray!

you know what Lady... you make me sick to my stomach. It is none of your damn business and should never be up to the so called "people" to make this decision. Most people have the intelligence of a house plant. The courts are designed to interpret the laws, not base judgement on how they feel!! it doesn't matter how you feel about the subject...it matters what is right and just. that is why this matter will go all the way to the supreme court. you mark my words!! People like you saying "it makes me sick" need to get a damn life!!

you apparently do not know what unconstitutional means or else you wouldn't use it in such an incorrect way.

to all you homophobic, self-righteous, "christians" out there, what is your source for the idea that being gay is a choice? did god tell you this? all of the gay people i've had conversations with tell me they've been gay all of their lives, it's just who they are and have always been.

if you insist on carrying with rediculous argument though, i have a question for you. can you tell me when it was that you chose to be heterosexual? if gay is a choice than at some point you must have consciously chosen not to be gay. when was this?

or is it maybe that you insist that being gay is a choice because unless this is true your "god created adam and eve not adam steve" argument holds no water at all?

yes on 8...legalizing gay marriage eliminates my right to be a hateful, self-righteous, bigot. i'm so oppressed!

I'm straight, married, live in CT and I couldn't be happier! I'm quite proud of my state right now.

Lady Of The South

i think you have been drinking too much of your church  KOOL-AID. you say freedom of religion what if you dont believe in god like myself? i dont want my kids to be introduce to jesus or god for that matter I RESPECT JESUS BUT HIS FOLLOWERS ARE FOR THE MOST PART DOING AND SAYING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE DID

Lady of the South

What you eat does not make my Stomach full...what you hate does not make me hate.

what brings you joy does not bring me joy...You have no right trying to dictate how

other should feel...giving opinions is one thing..making Mandates is LUDICROUS...since

you pretend to be into the BIBLE so much...remember Jesus said the only Commandments

that MATTERED at ALL were to..LOVE YOUR GOD and to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR...the

GREATEST COMMANDMENTS OF ALL...if one can not do this than EVERYTHING YOU DO

and SAY IS POINTLESS....There are NO EXCEPTIONS...your either With Jesus or you are

AGAINST JESUS.

Please Wilberta do not speak again about subjects that you are obviously ignorant of...Jesus said that thru fulfilling these 2 commandments, you would fulfill all others. He NEVER stated that that was the ONLY thing that you had to do. If you love God with all your "heart, mind, and soul" than it would then be your desire to live according to His law.

Rpach...you are one of the TRULY humorous people of the world. You say that you do not believe in God, yet you respect Jesus...how?

If you don't believe in God than there is NO WAY that you could respect Jesus if you had half a brain. If there is no God, then Jesus was a complete lunatic...how to you reconsile this in your strange universe of one?

It is VERY unconstitutional for a group of judges with their own personal political agendas to unconstitutionally say that the democratic process is not how things should be decided in America.

The judicial branch needs to be put back in its place and realize that their function in America is to enforce the laws not make them.

And no one can claim that they are being discriminated against when they are given the EXACT same rights as a married couple in their state by way of a civil union. So please explain to me how it is wrong to outlaw gay "marriage" if they are still given the same rights with another union...you are just crying because you are not allowed to use the term "married" which if you do your research is derived from Hebrew in the Old Testament used to define the RELIGIOUS union of a man and a woman.

I don't care if you believe in creationism or evolutionism, we are the way we are, man and woman, for a reason. You cannot logically explain how homosexuality is "natural" if you look at it religiously OR scientifically.

I apologize...you are correct...I just got a little worked up at the absurdity of the statement.

I really don't like the fact that this forum does not allow easy link to quote another author...that would be helpful.

Lady,

People should be treated equally under the constitution, read the First Amendment. Freedom of religion. Gay marriage goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles,

This has got to be the most absurd argument I've heard yet This is the golden egg of the "poor persecuted christian" complex. Using this argument, everything that you don't agree with should be illegal.

Atheism goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles

Abortion goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles

Evolution goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles

Democracy goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles

Just fill in the blank and it's a perfect world...

________— goes against freedom of religion because they are forcing religious people to accept their sinful lifestyles

Now what you have said Kevin is absurd...Christians were not the ones that stated that the hypothesis of evolution could not be taught in schools because we did not agree with it, but when ANY creationists asks for equal teaching time to creationism you shout "separation of church and state"...and on that note...please tell me which line in the Constitution discusses separation of church and state. The "separation of church and state" is a line from a letter written by Benjamin Franklin where he is describing his fear of exactly what has taken place in the last century in our country. He was talking about his fear that the State would indoctrinate the population to agree with everything that they said was right; abortion, no bibles in school, evolution as the only possible means of our existence, naturalized homosexual relations. I do not agree with any of these, but I think that it should be left to the people to decide...not the politicians or judges. Non-religious folks only want the laws to be enforced when it fits their needs, everyone of the Christians that I know will follow the laws that are just whether they agree with them or not.

So please do not state that we want everything our way when we get nothing our way to begin with. Just like in California where a law was passed in 2000 outlawing gay "marriage" but putting civil unions with equal rights in place but a judge decided it was discriminatory...how...if you have equal rights, even by a different name, than there isn't any form of discrimination.

I do not agree with the statement that legalizing gay marriage is an offense to my freedom of religion, but if you read most of the propositions that have been put in place there is always a line thrown in towards the end that states that any person that does not treat the union as natural is guilty of discrimination in the lightest ones and a hate crime in most of them. That means that YES it is a violation of my freedom of religion. You are telling me that if i do not agree with gay marriage that i have committed a crime.

It is amazing to me how few understand the Constitution of the United States of America.  Please most of you bible thumpers need to actually read something other than the bible, maybe you could start with the Constitution, since you obviously have no idea what it really says.  The Rights promised in the Constitution are NOT limited to just a few, they are intended for ALL citizens.

TheArchitect316,

Christians were not the ones that stated that the hypothesis of evolution could not be taught in schools because we did not agree with it, but when ANY creationists asks for equal teaching time to creationism you shout "separation of church and state"

There's a very simple answer to this - Creationism is not science, it is religion. Teach religion in your church.

Would you want Islam taught in your child's science class?

The "separation of church and state" is a line from a letter written by Benjamin Franklin 

No, it was from Thomas Jefferson (1802) and it had nothing to do with the "fears" you describe.

(I don't think Franklin had any fear of teaching evolution since the theory of evolution wasn't around until some 60+ years after he died)

See my post further down on this topic.

Non-religious folks only want the laws to be enforced when it fits their needs

Non-religious folks only want the laws to be enforced when they are non-religious.

So please do not state that we want everything our way when we get nothing our way to begin with. 

Please do not play the persecution card when 90% of the population claims to be Christian. You get nothing your way? Right. In other words you don't get to force your way on the citizens that disagree with you.

You can do what ever you want. Don't marry a gay, don't believe science, teach your children creationism, practice your religion how ever you want, don't have an abortion,...

Why is it so important for you to force these things on me and my children?

Just like in California where a law was passed in 2000 outlawing gay "marriage" but putting civil unions with equal rights in place but a judge decided it was discriminatory...how...if you have equal rights, even by a different name, than there isn't any form of discrimination.

Because there were no equal rights in place - by any name. California allowed for a "civil union" but it was in name only It did not carry the same legal rights as a marriage.

Secondly, "separate but equal" or "almost equal" is not equal.

You are telling me that if i do not agree with gay marriage that i have committed a crime.

No, but if you discriminate against gays, if you disallow equal rights to gays...

Lady....you truely need to wake up and come out of the 15th century. Would you rather see you son or daughter love someone of the same sex, or kill each other in front of ya? Would that satisfy your Christian soul? It's love or hate Lady...no in betweens. Go splash some cold water on your face, put down the bottle of Vodka and be a real human. It's really easy to do if ya try!

hum.. family moral values? LOL!!! wasn't that the term used on the RNC platform?LOL!!! my my my. what a laugh. and how many of the RNC has come forth from the closet? LOL!!! how many of them abuse their wives, children and kick the dog? when i hear the word moral? i think about glass houses and people who throw stones. i don't care if people get married, i don't care if steve and jack get married to each other, or mary and laura get married to each other. what consenting adults do with their lives is between them. get busy with your own life, time is precious and passes by too quick.

What hypocrisy. The truth is that the real intolerance is hatred of Christians. Anything with any semblance of morality is depised.

Hate?  I just saw a bit on TV.  A 69 year-old woman was spat at, and shoved, by gay protesters.  Why?  She had a sign promoting traditional marriage.

No Greg, we don't need to cut back on the caffeine. We are just stating what we believe in. We are not all full of hate. But we are sitting here watching this country fall flat on its face because we except anything and everything!

Jesus said" they hate me and they will hate you for my names sake." When we speak out on issues that we don't believe in your the one that shows the hate.

All I am saying is that it is wrong the same as killing millions of unborn babies is wrong!

Hate me if you wish, I am not going to change my mind!

john, spike and jojo no one expects you to change your mind nor do we care what you think -- but know you are evil -- truly evil

Dian, you think we are evil, but that is your opinion.

Say what you wish!

john you fundamentalists-for-hate LOVE to see yourselves as persecuted and you are not

decent people only object to your endless efforts to force others to live under your rule

and we will not tolerate it in Democratic Free America!!!

Jojo it is not my 'opinion' it is fact -- hate and fear are evil and to allow your life to be run by hate and fear is a small, evil choice

think and do what you want -- as long as you do not actually abuse anyone else -- just keep it to yoursleves and stop forcing, or endlessly trying to force, your small minded anti-American ideology of intolerance and restriction of thought, expression and living on the rest of the free world

harvsr:  I don't agree with your position, but your jokes are quite funny.

I heard that ignorance in this country could be eliminated if people picked up a science book instead of a bible.

Just trying to add a little levity...

i have to agree some of havsr posts are making even me laugh!

God does not believe in atheist...does this mean you don't exist?

I'm an atheist, I swear to God I am.

No Greg, we don't need to cut back on the caffeine. We are just stating what we believe in. We are not all full of hate. But we are sitting here watching this country fall flat on its face because we except anything and everything!

Jesus said" they hate me and they will hate you for my names sake." When we speak out on issues that we don't believe in your the one that shows the hate.

All I am saying is that it is wrong the same as killing millions of unborn babies is wrong!

Hate me if you wish, I am not going to change my mind!

You'll notice that Jesus never trekked to Rome to address the Imperial Senate, nor ever tried to make the Roman Emperor create laws based on his belief. Jesus Christ worked to change people's minds, not forcefully through law change their behavior.

Jojo, Jim Jones said the same thing in trying to build blind faith, and we all know how that ended.

You aren't being persecuted at all, there is just a growing number of us who, from a place of non-magical thinking, fail to see how your beliefs in the unproven book you constantly thump (while simultaneously failing to adhere to most of its 'teachings') has anything to do with our lives.

My life ain't gonna end because you bible thumpers won't stop trying to legislate your beliefs into law, because I see your ridiculous 'institution of marraige' for what it REALLY is, not your starry-eyed version. It's an 'institution' that fails more often than it survives, produces miserable adults and miserable children and creates a multi-billion dollar industry for divorce lawyers. Hell, your DIVORCES alone create one of the biggest burdens on our legal system.

You don't give two rat's craps about the sanctity of your institution, because if you DID, you'd be out there protesting EVERY time someone tried to sully it, i.e. outside the sets of reality shows that help people get married in the span of a few weeks; Vegas, where 'people' like Britney Spears get married because they're drunk, etc etc etc.

No, you don't really care about the sanctity of marraige, you just can't contain your unbridled hatred of gay people, and instead of admitting that hatred, you take the passive-aggressive route and try and shove the same s%*t about 'hating the sin but loving the sinner' while exhausting yourselves and your resources to prevent others from having the same rights that you do.

As the great Patsy Stone once said: "You may dress like a Christian, but the similarity ends there."

Dian,

It is MY RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT ON WHAT I BELIEVE, just like it is your right to speak out on what you believe. I see just as much HATE in you as you claim you see in me!

God Bless!

I see the levity has been deleted...

I think, therefore I am. God doesn't seem to think, or he wouldn't appear to be such a bigot, so I guess he's just a fairy tale.

jojo what part do you not understand

you can speak your hate you can live your hate (as long as you do not actually abuse anyone) and you can practice your hate all you want - free country!

but you do NOT get to force your hate-way of life on me! FREE COUNTRY!

Dian,

You are the one passing hate. I never said I hated anyone. You just think I do. You don't know me, so I don't believe that you can say I am hating  or abusing anyone.

...but still censored, huh, beef?

Props to Angry Atheist. Hard to imagine so many people  live their lives to fairy tales. If you are gonna believe in something why not Superman? I'm just saying!

Angry Atheist...I am right there with you!

Props to Angry Atheist and Michael Todd for being the voices of reason.

Spike,

A 69 year-old woman was spat at, and shoved, by gay protesters.  Why?  She had a sign promoting traditional marriage.

You call it "traditional marriage", I call it prejudicial persecution and discrimination. She is no better than a Nazi, so perhaps she deserved the spitty dis.

So silly.  Now we have people worried about the country turning gay.   I don't understand it!  Why protest?  Think it's going to ruin your marriage?  Think it's going to turn your spouse gay?  What's the matter with people?  Gay people getting married does not make a straight Christian any less of a straight Christian.  Live and let live, and if you're getting married, gay or straight, congrats (IMHO)!

Michael Todd ~ so right! Thank you!

I think some people follow Charles Dobson like sheep...

pjwrites...you are a complete imbecile...you are comparing a 69 year old woman who was lawfully expressing her opinion in a peaceful manner to a fascist Nazi. So please tell me when was the last time you heard about gays and lesbians being herded into a gas chamber and killed...you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know that is asking too much from someone with no moral code.

You know what John, the persecution of Christians ended with the Roman Empire, that is when Christains began their long tradition of persecuting every other human on the planet.  So sorry if I don't have any sympathy for your skewed perceptions.

spike-322306

Hate?  I just saw a bit on TV.  A 69 year-old woman was spat at, and shoved, by gay protesters.  Why?  She had a sign promoting traditional marriage.

...the pair kidnapped Mr. Shepard, pistol-whipped him with a .357 Magnum, and left him tied to a ranch fence for 18 hours.

Why? because he was gay.

What about people that can't have children your highness, or those that marry and have no children by choice? I was hoping you were gonna say love, and procreation. But I guess that's how you see it, you are more naturalist, and in fact evolutionist in that respect than I , an atheist. I would let people marry for love but you see it as a natural need, just to procreate? You would rather see an unhappy marriage, and one end up in divorce (where's the sanctity there?) than a happily married couple. I'm glad I'm not that hateful.

So you think that a heterosexual couple that are unable to have children should not be allowed to be married?

My husband and I have been married for 5 years now and we don't have kids yet. So does that mean our marriage is null and void?

Amanda: yes. How dare you not contribute to the overpopulation of the planet. Please, do the Godly thing and get divorced immediately.

;)

Michael Todd...will they allow us to get remarried if and when we do have kids?

Probably not, because you'd then have a divorce under your belt and would therefore be unpure/unclean or unsomething and therefore uneligible for something as sacrosanct as marraige.

Man, soooooo may rules!

UGH!  So many gay couples are trying their hardest to adopt.  There are too many children in shelters and foster homes, and to give any couple the right to raise a child with love, whether the couple be gay or straight, is amazing. 

Here's to hoping all the other states follow Connecticut's example!

The banter between Amanda and Michael Todd is making me giggle.

Amanda and Michael Todd are hilarious! Thanks!

Well, I have to do SOMETHING with my time since my getting married would certainly result in every single "Christian" family in the known world instantly falling apart and churches all over the planet spontaneously combusting to the choreographed tunes of Judy Garland.

No, it's best that I whittle away the lonely years ahead by being a smartass on message boards and preying on people who can barely spell the WORD 'bible' let alone critically think about or live by it. Yes, I'll stay in a dark room with a wireless internet connection and my Newsvine account where I can't harm any sacred institutions, offend Rick Santorum-esque types with my lack of biblical reverance or gross anyone out with my 'lifestyle'.

I'm sure I'll eventually get bored and find other religious institutions to ruin and ways to help 'normal' heterosexuals to fall into hellpits, but for now I'll settle for mildly amusing message boards. :)

Michael Todd:  According to some people on here, all you have to do is go to church and pray for your "gayness" to go away.  It's a choice, didn't you know?  Complete ignorance.

The last time I prayed for my gayness to go away was when I was 12 and I got my ass kicked for having a picture of George Michael taped to my history book cover (remember making book covers out of paper grocery bags? Ahh, the good times).

What did Jesus give me in return for my devout prayer? Not heterosexuality - pre-teen acne! Now, it was at that point that I realized that if there WAS a god, he/she had a TOTALLY ironic sense of humor, because said onset of acne TOTALLY defeated the purpose because it brought all of the gay right back out (you know, we are quite a vain minority) - it was my first full-on big gay moment ever.

But fortunately my best female friend who, to this day, remains one of my closest, introduced me to concealer. That godly gesture not only cemented my complexion, but our friendship and my self-acceptance.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to return to being a world/family-ending llama-marryer.

Michael Todd.   I think that was one of the funniest things I have read on here in awhile!

Paper bag covers!  I totally forgot about them...until now!

I had such a crush on George Michael.  Wow.  How the hell didn't I know back then?  He did make somewhat convincing videos at the time.  But I think when the album "Faith" was released, I was eight.  I get a pass.

Go on, my good friend, and wreak havoc on all straight-family houses!

jeneral don't forget the kids living in hell in those polygamist sects that would be far better off in a decent gay family where at least they could laugh and run and play.........

...and not have to marry and sleep with men that are 50 years older.  I hear ya.

Amanda,

Your problem is really quite simple. No divorce - annulment.

If you have not produced any children yet, an annulment should be easy because you obviously have not consummated your marriage. After all, sex is only for procreation and I know you wouldn't be living a sinful life.

Michael,

Please let me know ahead of time when you do get married. I want to be in a really crowded place and see what happens when half the population instantaneously turns gay.

I'd also like to know what the priest has to say when you force him to perform the wedding ceremony.

You guys truly do baffle with your ramblings...In Micheal's world if i do not agree with you I am a bigot, but you not agreeing with me is natural. I agree that if you want to screw the dog than you can, but that does not mean that I have to agree with it, nor does it mean that I am wrong because I disagree. America was built by Christian men and women that were wanting to start a new BETTER country. We had a good run for 175 or so years, but since the age of seperation of christianity and everything else in the late 50's the country has been in a perpetual downward spiral.

Before you start spouting off, look at the statistics...since the adoption of evolution being the ONLY option of thought in public school and the removal of the bible and its moral teachings, the country's youth have gone completely insane. In America the new train of thought is "if enough people say it's right, then we have to say it is." Homosexual relationships included. Just because a very small portion of the country say they want to do something unnatural you are saying that I am required to except it or I am a bigot?

Last time I checked, marriage is not a requirement for procreation. Besides, I think the human species perfected procreation by now.

Michael Todd: 

"Well, I have to do SOMETHING with my time since my getting married would certainly result in every single "Christian" family in the known world instantly falling apart and churches all over the planet spontaneously combusting to the choreographed tunes of Judy Garland."

Michael, Please hurry up and get married!

LOL I'll do my best, but I don't like going to the East Coast during the winter.  Chicago is cold enough.

And Architect - if you aren't a bigot, then you shouldn't care if others think you are, because you know the truth.  However, you DON'T apparently know the truth about who 'built' this country.  None of our founding fathers were particularly religious, and many of them had nothing but outspoken disdain for organized religion.  There are many books and indeed their own memoirs that show this. 

Second, people of ALL religions or of NO religion at all have all played a hand in building this country, so to insinuate that Christians are responsible for all that is good and the rest of the populace owns all the bad - as you did insinuate - is myopic and irresponsible, not to mention patently untrue.

PS - are you saying that America's youth have gone 'completely insane' because they just voted in record numbers and are, for the first time in decades, showing an active interest and involvement in their country's government?  I'm actually, for the first time in a long time, impressed with the 18-29 crowd.  Maybe now that we have a president with a fully functioning brain headed to DC they might be inspired to stop f*$()ing up their lives and do something.  What ruined America's youth is the fact that you silly heterosexuals have raised them all to believe that they are always #1/right/better than everyone else instead of letting them live in the real world.  Don't blame the rightful separation of church and state, blame bad parenting.

Michael, I agree with everything you said except: "What ruined America's youth is the fact that you silly heterosexuals have raised them all to believe that they are always #1/right/better than everyone else instead of letting them live in the real world."  Please don't include all of us heterosexuals in this category.  I have raised my boys to be open-minded, realistic, and willing to take a stand in defense of others, just as my heterosexual parents raised me. So, there are some of us that are at least trying to do right by our kids.

True.  But since 99.99 percent of parents in the US are of the heterosexual variety, I was merely attempting to find ONE thing that gays and lesbians can't legitimately be blamed for in this whole mess. 

Regardless, you have my kudos (as does ANYONE) for raising a good kid. :)

lol, I think there are many many things that gays and lesbians can't "legitimately' be blamed for in this mess. 

And thanks, I tried, and I think they turned out pretty good they both voted for Obama.

Not exactly true, ecib.  I used to work for the city of NY, and I had no problem putting my girlfriend on my health plan as a domestic partner.  Granted, that policy was instigated by homosexuals, but anybody could do it. Because of tax issues, we decded not to do it and got married instead.  Goes to show what a stupid bastard I am.

And since they can't have visitation rights and pay taxes together as heterosexuals do(just to mention two), they balance to 0. 2-2=0. Can you do math, or does you bible say something against math also?

StoneCold-True about the domestic partner.  I plan on doing that for my fella very soon.

Where do you work? for the city or state?

My employer will not let man and woman to have benefits until your married

But gays can get day one benefits. So for me Gay’s has more rights it is total BS

You can't do that in all states.  In NC for example, I work for the school system and they do not provide domestic partner benefits, also their discrimination does not include sexual orientation.

DXB well the muslims invented algebra and we all know what evil terrorists they are (almost as bad as the gays). so no algebra for us holier than thou christians.

Funny thing about this whole situation... if you are looking at reasons to get the other half onto a health plan... the constitution indicates that one must be married...if you were caught as sexual pleasures, I do believe it is against the law unless married... LOL!  That is why Gays get married...not only to have sex, but to get health insurance! 

What a mess... doesn't matter to me what goes on as long as they don't try to pass it along to me making it right!

"nowhere in the constitution does it provide equal rights based on sexual oreitnation. "

Neither does the Constitution deny those rights.

The Constitution states:

...or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Notice the absence of a qualifier in that statement. That means the State cannot deny equal protection to anyone, for any reason.

14th Amendment of the United States Constitution states:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Look at the article again.  Do they want equal rights or court mandated "validation"

Why is a civil union which carries all the rights of marriage not enough?  The article says that is the case there already, though I don't know if that is entirely true or not.

Is "validation" of a lifestyle a right?

Look, the founding fathers didn't say "liberty and justice for some", they said "liberty and justice for all." The fact that there are millions and millions of people in this country who still cling to the notion that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' after all shows that they are, well... stupid.

But I know, that's far too simple a way of looking at things. "All" MUST mean 'some' because if it truly means everyone, then our not-so-secret Animal Farm approach to equality that is the REALITY in America - that some are 'more equal than others' - would be in tatters.

*applauding Michael Todd wildly*

Ditto, Amanda. Way to go, Michael Todd!

Lorent

Is "validation" of a lifestyle a right?

I sincerely doubt that the gay community wants or needs your "validation". It is not as though they are second class citizens looking to advance to the head of the class, they are merely seeking legal equality, as they have every right to do.

As I have mentioned before, this unfounded prejudice against our fellow law-abiding, tax-paying adult gay citizens is not only illegal, it's immoral. Homo-sexuality has existed as long as life itself. Those who would attempt to cast these people as "unnatural" or "perverted" are simply wrong - these are "consenting" adults doing no harm to any other. They are not deviants harming the weak and defenseless, and they are entitled to the same rights to privacy that we all demand for what we, as adults, do behind closed doors.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion of their lifestyle, but that doesn't mean you have the right to take rights away from them based on those differences. 

This persecution of our gay citizens is another blot on our history, just like black slavery or the Nazi persecution of the Jews. It should not be tolerated. 

Cheers to that!

pj -

Thanks for the comment, but you should read the article again.

It says they already had civil unions with all the rights of marriage.

The person in the article did not get a civil union because that was "not enough", even though all the rights of marriage were available, just not the word.

The person specifically says that having "marriage" would be "validation".  So having a civil union, even if it bestows all the same rights as marriage, was not "validation".

This person wants control of the word.  They want the word to apply to same sex unions.  Without the word, they think they are being denied a right. 

They want courts to define the word.  And they want "validation", and I would say "acceptance" from the government and forced upon the public.

Again, I ask:  is "validation" a right?  When a majority might not agree with a particular lifestyle?

Way to go Michael Todd once again!!! Woohoo!

They want the word to apply to same sex unions.

And why not, you don't have control of the word. You don't own it. You can't decide who it applies to and who it doesn't.

And they want "validation", and I would say "acceptance" from the government and forced upon the public.

If "acceptance" is equality (and "separate but equal" is not equal) than, yes you can say acceptance.

What, exactly, is being forced upon the public. Are you going to be forced into a gay marriage?

Civil unions do not grant all of the same rights as marriage.  They can't, because of the federal Defense of Marriage Act which prevents civil unions from being treated the same as marriages at a federal level.  This prevents civil unions from having many of the same attributes as marriage, including the right to file joint federal tax returns with the IRS, the right to sponsor one's partner for immigration, and the ability to freely move around the country and have their union continue to be valid even if they change their state of residence.  Yet all of these are automatically granted to heterosexual marriages.

There is, also, the argument that creating civil unions as a seperate but equal parallel to marriage would merely institutionalize a new form of segregation.  If they are, indeed, to truly be equal under the eyes of the law then what is the legal need for a seperate institution?  It reminds me of certain lines from the Brown v Board of Ed decision:

Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law; for the policy of separating the races is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the negro group.

Rephrased somewhat, it would seem to apply directly to this concept:

Segregation of homosexual and heterosexual couples into the dual institutions of civil unions and civil marriage has a detrimental effect upon the homosexual couples.  The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law; for the policy of seperating the sexual orientations is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the homosexual group.

Lady:

 I am a Christian and we must be Christ like. The Lord said Hate the Sin not the Sinner. If you believe that your God is grate then you must believe that He is in control. I said Certificate not Marriage a Certificate that would give them Health right, Pension Right and basic Human right not Marriage you misunderstood what I wrote.

Ok, god. Thank you for your input. I'm glad you could enlighten us today on your opinion.

Angry:

 I mean no disrespect to you either I really don't like to judge anyone and I respect all opinions. I don't believe in jamming my believes in anyone face either so if your offended I am sorry for that. If your Gay you must understand also that taking a word like Marriage and trying to change its meaning will not make it so, because you will never get the respect you think you will get from those who see it as a one man one woman right, You need to defined yourself not take it from another part of society.

You won't allow it?  Who the hell died and left you in charge?

Stone who are you talking too?

Hi Linda,
My comment was directed toward Lady. I meant no disrespect to you.

Linda -

My comment was also directed toward Lay of the South, not you.  I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect it.  I made a comment about Scarlett O'Hara's incredible arrogance "I won't allow it."  Yeah, right.  Sorry for the confusion.

P.S. - Yes, I know I made a typo in the first line of this post.  I was going to correct it, but decided to let it stand.

Scarlet O'Hara...that really made me laugh out loud!!!

This is all about the meaning of the word if they already have the right to a civil union that gives them everything except the word "marriage"

I don't care what people want to do in their sex lives or love lives, but I don't know that "validation" is a right.

For those of you arguing with Lady of the South, you're wasting your time. How on earth do you expect to get through to this rube who has the confederate flag as her avatar?

Sometimes, stupid is permanent.

Lmao! StoneCold you are hilarious! I'm glad you left the typo, it sounds more accurate anyway.
Angry~ I had the same thought when I read her post talking about SHE WON'T ALLOW IT!!! Hahahaha she is so dilusional! Great laugh though =)

The word marriage has been around for a long time and has very many different meanings in different times to different people. Nobody owns it, nobody has a claim to its meaning. It's absurd to think that because you believe it means one certain thing that you can prevent someone else from using it. It is not a Christian term, in is not a religious term.

Judges neither write nor enforce laws, they interpret them, they are the judicial branch of government. Take a government class if you can, please. Your ignorance makes me laugh, really. Enforcing laws is the Executive branch's duty, which consists mainly of police and sheriffs.

USSWE! I hate to be the one to break it to you but there are a lot of things hetrosexuals do in lovemaking that would be considered crimes against nature as opposed to procreation sex.  Poor guy you must have had a very boring  partner or perhaps you were the boring one. Has she left you yet?

sam....what?

the vast vast majority of anti-gay marriage posts make NO SENSE at all!!!!

which I guess explains a lot...

...and certainly says a lot about who is still anti-gay marriage in this day and age..

....get some book lernin' y'all just sayin'

then you'll be able to read the Constitution of the United States of America

"Not tonight, dear, I have a butt-ache."

OK, stonecold, I will admit - that actually was kinda funny.

LMAO...tisk tisk StoneCold!!!

Lmao! too funny!

Beethoven was gay?

I believe that faith can be cured with reason, too, but then I would be violating your rights, wouldn't I?

Here we go.. everyone should just be allowed to do whatever, whenever they want? So why can't I marry my dog.. Seriously ? At that point, we just become more diluted than we already are. Angry Athiest.. It is easier to believe in nothing... Although, probably uncomfortable at times, you still have to validate your existence through rights and freedoms to chose to do nothing... As cliche as it may seem.. if you believe in nothing.. you stand for nothing..

Just because a guy plays with dolls when he was little doesn't mean he should have sex with another man... Just like women used to do all the cooking... I know more MEN that can cook than women.. If you like what you do and try to be the best... it doesn't mean you should be gay to get the job well done..:)

Unlike you, I don't need to fill some "void" in my life with an imaginary friend. I love my life and I don't need to validate anything to anyone. I believe in love, and respect and freedom.

Your funny.. in a sad way.. look at what you call yourself.. ANGRY ATHEIST?.. this generally means you have a void and I'm sure you do... lacking understanding/knowledge... Your Angry that you believe in nothing.. better yet, your ANGRY at those that do believe in something... This might anger you, but I just prayed for you.. but since you belive in nothing it shouldn't? Right? 

biggov that is one of the most shocking and disgusting posts i have ever read

what do bigots contribute to society -- definitely nothing

i believe deeply in God which is why i find the anti-gays most offensive

but do you honestly see 'gays' as these one-dimensional cardboard cut-outs? do you really have no conception that (1) gays are sent to earth gay by God and (2) gays-ness has always been and always will be found in nature, it is part of God's world and (3) gays come in all varieties -- architects, lawyers, DOCTORS, sicentists, researchers -- clergy -- all walks of life -- contribution is as contribution does

I'm angry not because of a "void" but because people "of faith" use faith to freely bash anyone they want that doesn't fit into the rediculous mold they have established. Please don't waste your breath by praying for me...it doesn't anger me, but you are wasting everyone's air. And we must conserve our resources, now!

yes angry atheist the appalling lack of reason and the contradiction in all the fundamentaslits say is frustrating.....obviously God is not like that

which is why thinking, education, free speech and free expression of thought are all the enemy of the fundamentalist...

which is why fundamentalism -- be it in Afghanistan or American -- is antithetical to democracy and freedom! Un-American!

ANGRY A.. The whole point is that you are angry... How about HAPPY ATHEIST? Then people wouldn't pick on you so much.. your an easy target.. I have to say, your easy to get going... Thanks for the entertainment... BTW.. I'm so enlightened by the fact that that you think SCIENCE (man made - flawed) is the LAW of creation.. JA, we can't even figure out Cancer.. and your trying to tell me that are little math/science could figure out the rest of the universe and that you could comprehend it? You can't even figure out not to be ANGRY..

Dian Larkin,

I know it's shocking.. but I really like the way that you say"God sent gays to earth"? Sin has been on earth.. being Gay is just one of those... Wow, I guess we have no choice but to be straight or gay? Let me guess.. your one of those that created GOD in your own image... "My God belives what I believe"? We have choices.... Just like if you have a bad day, what now you self diagnose yourself as depressed? Just because you find another man/woman attractive.. it's still wrong to act on it..  I do not hate gays.. I don't hate anyone.. In terms of what they contribute on a moral level and natural level...  Are they people? Of coursee.. are they creative, caring, beautiful, individualistic people ... YES!!! But I'm talking about being GAY.. Having sex with the same sex..

Kuddos to BIGGOV.  I like the references you made to that name "angry atheist". I was thinking the same damn thing. The name says it all.

Hey t, 1960 wants their arguments back.

BINGO!!!

Very good point!! I guess so many people have forgotten that this country was founded on Christian principles.. Marriage/unity was defined by the church...

Marriage existed prior to Christ's existence. It was, as it is/should be now, a legal contract for conjoining assets/property.

God didn't "invent" it.

Marriage was defined by Adam and Eve in my humble opinion they were the first married couple.

THe law books define marriage.. maybe some other books...but the sanctity of marriage as in sacrament..is religios..but that is neither here nor there... It is the law books that control in terms of the civil issues of marriage..see children, divorce and property..also marital privilege...( A minor point, defined by Adam and Eve, mere mortals, then these mere mortals today can redefine marriage...right?)

Marriage was created by Christians? That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever heard. Um...the concept of marriage was in existence for thousands of years before Christ.

BIGGOV~And the Christian principles that this Country was founded on is: stealing, murder, slavery, rape, lies, coveting, greed, wrath and envy~ what happened thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet, thou shall not kill...everything you claim is Christian is what this country was built on so your plea seems to be contradictive. While I am not an Atheist, I have to admit that Angry has some very valid points. You claim to be so good and "Christian" and whollier than thou yet you have nothing. Everything this Country was built on is not very Christian-like. Even back then God didn't like or condone stealing, murder, slavery, rape, lies, coveting, greed, wrath and envy. Just live your life and let others live their lives the way they see fit and leave the judging to whatever higher power you blieve in.

Because Christ sanctified Adam and Eve's marriage? You mean Jesus Christ..In New Testament ,the look back? Or in Genesis ,The Remake?

I think its an offense for christians

Than I guess your brand of christians shouldn't get "gay married".

because marriage was founded by christianity between a man and a women.

Right, a few thousand years before christ.

Yet politics want religion out of the picture?

um, yeah. Kind of a big principle in what America is. Freedom of religion, separation of church and state, equal rights, ya know, that kind of stuff.

Marriage was defined by Adam and Eve in my humble opinion they were the first married couple.

Nice opinion. Has nothing to do with the law/constitution. I would suggest that you too not get "gay married". Apparently you and I don't believe the same myths.

the 'embankment towards moral decay' -- would that be the rich CEO criminals? the health care insurers that refuse to provide health care insurance? and the "christian" fundamentalist hate groups like the KKK? if so I agree with you....

dian,

the kkk is not a christian org. true christians do not practice hate against others. there are people who wrongly invoke the name of God to try to control others. such as obama. but believe me, true Christians love all people, though they will hate their sin. we can look through history and see the results of moral decay. ie the roman empire, sodom & gomorrrah. and now as America morally declines we see rampant crime, against unborn babies, women, children, the elderly and yes ceo's who have no moral compass when it comes to cheating people out of their money for their financial gain.

trco the KKK IS a Fundamentalist Christians-for-hate group -- go to their web site and call their phone number -- "christian"

and how are they different than you?

you are so right -- true christians do not hate and do not try to control others -- so why are you doing it

and OBAMA we are blessed to call  president -- he is a man of integrity and intelligence, education and careful considered thought and action - I can see why Fundamentalists hate him -- thought and education are the enemies of brainwashed brain-dead fundamentalism for sure -- which relies on unthinking unquestioning uneducated acceptance of dogma

which is why fundamentalism is dangerous to democracy and freedom and so often falls into hatred and fear.....and the practice of those things

trco.. KKK claims to be Christian..(You think it is Muslim? Jewish? Gay?)...Nah...They claim your basic Christian creed... and pray to the Christian God..All you gay bashers would do a world of good if you would try to bring these guys/gals to Jesus..and control their behavior...

Sometimes in some areas I think there might be cross over so to speak

understood...thanks

how does gays obtaining equal rights "corrupt your marriage significance" please please explain that one

beefviper-well said!  I think that's a major problem with a lot of the anti-gay marriage people on here.

it matters because we have seen what the moral decay has done to other great societies in the past. what makes you think America will be any different.

your core value of not caring what others do is pitiful. let's apply this to say, theft. as long as no one steals from me, i don't care. there are people who believe stealing is not wrong, morally or actually, look at the federal government.

We can say anything goes as long as I am not forced to do it, but this ideology does not work and history proves it.

rampant greed and dishonesty -- adultery -- ME ME ME ME FIRST -- is what destroys hitherfore successul societies -- not gay people or gay marriage

love and tolerance and acceptance, equal rights for all -- could NEVER harbinger doom

only hate, intolerance, fear, unkindness, greed and dishonesty can destroy -- HELLO think it thru -- which feels like light and hope and which feels dark and small and isolated

you are wrong -- gay marriage is not the problem -- your desire to withhold rights from a group of people is part of the problem.

beefchomper

they are both immoral acts, duh.

the reason you see no harm is that, like our new purchased president  - you have no core values. just do what feels good and damned the consequences

why is it that when we express our right that i do not agree with same sex behaviour we are bigots, 

You do not have to agree with it (but it is there). You don't have the right to deny rights to other people though - regardless of what you believe. If you discriminate based on your "lack of agreement" then that is bigoted.

And hate is not just violence.

it matters because we have seen what the moral decay has done to other great societies in the past. 

See now that is bigoted and hateful because you equate "moral decay" with "gay".

you have no core values

is a pretty insulting, hateful statement. Okay, maybe not. Maybe it's just an ignorant statement.

RPach

There are a lot of other diseases transmitted through heterosexual contact and non-sexual contact. What's your point.

That is why our brilliant founding fathers said that religion and the state should always remain seperate. Why would they escape persecution to create it elsewhere?

I know, like what was the purpose of making Eve? But instead of judging them... we should just pray because there is nothing we can do but only disagree.  

Creation didn't happen, Barbie. Go read a biology textbook. Or are you crazy fundamentalists going to debauch science by putting god in it?

If that's what you believe hey... go right ahead.  I rather believe in a God and have hope than not to believe in anything at all.  When death comes and you are there alone... who will you turn to?  I would turn to GOD.  I am not going to change your mind or argue about if there is a GOD or not becasue I feel and know that there is a God.

That's the point, though! I don't need to turn to anything!

and how will you explain to your God that while you were on his Earth you made life harder to a group of outcast?

JE...by shoving "christian morals" down peoples throats and wanting it made into the law of the land, the state is endorsing a religion!

JE,

Ummm, Evolution not creation.   And your "case closed" statement should be "closed mind".

No, evolution is science.  Science is a method of study that uses empircal evidence to prove or disprove a theory.  Religion is a belief in something that is impossible to prove.

You can prove science.  You can not prove Christ.

AMEN

AMEN

I believe in science.

I believe in God.

I believe in the separation of church and state.

I believe that gays should be able to marry.

Guess I'm one in a million, huh?

Kitti J:  Sounds like you are reasonable.  I hope it's not that rare!

I believe that "THE WORD", while divinely inspired, has been translated and watered down by man so it can fit the desired situation.  "Christians" (and I use this term loosely, even when refering to myself) often take the bible and splice it; The "church" says "Oh, gays are evil, and are causing the moral fabric to die!", but will then turn around and embezzle money from the house of God.

So, I guess to answer your question, I believe it all; how I translate it and relate it to my life is something totally different.

BArbie Eve was created to pick up, do the laundry and the shopping

Science is in a constant state of revision due in part to the falability of science. The Holly Bible has yet to be disproved and whenever archiologists took time to prove historical inaccuracy in the Bible what they found was it was the science that was in error and never the Bible.

Homosexuality is a choice and those who claim otherwise are simply displaying an utter refusal to take responsibility for their actions; in fact making the argument that they are not free; and seeings how "Freedom is the greatest gift God has given on to man" these people are - by their own admission - Godless

It says there will be no state sponsored religion...like the Church of England.  That's it!

Where in the constitution does it say that? Do much of your own interpretation?

Let me give you a hint on this. The first amendment does not say "Congress shall make no law in establishment of religion". This would seem to be how you have interpreted it.

It actually says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". See the key here? respecting an establishment of religion. In other words this would prohibit the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no secular purpose.

The second part is "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Meaning that anyone can freely exercise their beliefs.

If you do a little research you will find that Thomas Jefferson described these clauses of the first amendment as "a clear wall of separation between church and state". This and other statements by our founding fathers, although not specifically in the constitution, have been used by the courts to help them to determine the intent of the founding fathers when they wrote the constitution.

Randy, first it is spelled Archaeology.  Second the bible can neither be proved nor disproved making it a book.  The only archaeologists that have done any significant studies on biblical history are "biblical archaeologists" which in it's self is a biased science they are looking only for proof and will not accept evidence that is contrary to their agenda.  I am an Anthropology grad student, with a minor in history. So if you really want to talk about proof we can talk.  You might learn something.

Then answer me this - me being a lowly Computer Science grad. What in the Bible has ever been disproved; and please contrast this with that which has proven to be scientifically inaccurate.

Anthropologists/Archaeologists used the Bible to locate the tomb of Moses's mother before the Egyptian government swooped in to seal off Mount Sinai because science had declared this tomb to be a fairy tale. 

The Law of Thermal Dynamics states that "everything goes form order to disorder" where as Evolution emplies the opposite. That said; it would appear that the Law of Thermal Dynamics disproves the theory of Evolution

Theresa, there is also no proof that Homosexuality is anything more than a Mental disorder. A synaptic glitch if you will. I never in my life believed that until this weekend.  Second to all of you. Conservatives have EVERY right to vote thier hearts just as you do. But all you have is a couple of catch phrases like hate and intolerance to throw around to back up your position. When the courts overturned the first vote in Ca. I did not protest or call names because I live in a country where I respect the law and if I need to, I work to change it. But I have news for you in the Gay community. Sunday my daughter, who voted AGAINST prop 8 was spit on, and called a whore as she walked into her church in Northern Ca. When services were over, they got to the car to see that it was keyed. My kid is sick. She has suffered from lupus for several years and the stress from this day caused her to ahve amajor flare up. So not only did you lose her support for your issue, as you obviously showed her your TRUE nature, but you pissed off her Daddy. You people may protest well but you can't stand up to a REAL fight. And I promise you now that if the courts overturn this ban in Ca. we are going to make what you are doing look like a favor. I am NOT talking about physicall violence(unless one of you has the guts to spit at me!!) But when the entrances to GLBT centers across this state are blocked by thousands, When businesses that fly a Rainbow flag are forced into bankruptcy and when the protest of all things hollywood hit, favor for the cause du jour will fade faster then you cna spit on a sick girl. We ARE going to take the fight to the streets and you will lose. I have never, NEVER used an anti gay epithet in my adult life. But from now on, You are all just abunch of child molesting, sissy queers as far as I am concerned. You SPIT on my kid. You screwed up.

Randy, apparently you have some trouble with reading.  I said "The bible can neither be proved nor disproved, making it a booK!

always amazed, where did I use the words hate or intolerance? And since when is study and science a catch phrase?  And by the way, I am not gay, I simply support Civil Rights!  I have never spit on anyone in my life and I will severely admonish anyone that resorts to such acts.  And I am truly sorry that your daughter suffered such an affront. But you go too far, blaming an entire community for the actions of a very few.  You threaten violence in protest of violence, I understand your anger, but really get a grip, I must assume that you have been looking for an example for which to base your already held negative views.  I feel sorry that you will take a single incident and turn it into war.  But then again that has been the case for many a war.

alwaysamazed...

Your child isn't alone in what happened to her. I live in California and many of the gays here have become belligerent and outright violent. They are stopping traffic in front churches as well as stopping people including young children from going in and out of their churches. They have gone as far as hitting drivers sitting in their cars trying to enter church parking lots. I don't belong to any religion or church but seeing the things these people are doing in their rallies on a daily basis has made my opinions of most of them the same as yours.  If it had been one or two idiots in those crowds I could see it as just that, a couple of troublemakers, but it was a good majority of them in every crowd being vulgar and laughing it up while doing it.  If any other person had done such a thing to a gay person, it would have been called a hate crime.  What do you call it when it happens to people like you and me and it's a homosexual doing it?

Theresa: you mentioned at the end of your comments about "war". There are 2 kinds of law, man's and God's. The secular world has in effect been "at war" with religious belief for a long time by continually denying God's law as expressed in the Bible on all kinds of moral issues, abortion, same sex marriages, unmarried couples having sexual activity an so on. The lack of belief or willingness to obey Bible morality is a choice that more and more people demand, hence the above actions becoming acceptable in society. After the acceptance comes the codification of these activities, usually under the guise of civil rights. As more and more people choose not to either believe in God or accept the Bible as His word then these changes in law become inevitable. The majority opinion(non belief in God) is continuing to grow and the majority will not have their "civil right" dictated by something they don't even believe in. This is logical. What is interesting though is that just as inevitably will the people and organizations that complain of suppression by the "religious community" in time demand a law against those very religious organizations that they claim are stepping on their civil rights. This will happen sooner or later, probably sooner. Then will these ones demand the same protection under the law of man for religious tolerance that they now claimfor themselves?? Highly unlikely.....................

vesey, and anyothers who might want to learn something, I suggest you read a book titled "The Dark Side of Christain History" it is a nice summary of the history of christianity, easy to read too.

Theresa, I seperated you from the gay community because I did not know if you were gay or not. I also specifically said I was NOT talking about violence unless someone had the guts to try and spit on me. Then I will turn 40 years of training on that person.My deeply held personal belief is that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. But I made it clear to anyone that spoke to me, that as much is I would find it offensive, if it was the vote of the people, that would be the end of it.( Much the same way as I am going to haveto  live with a flag hating president and first lady). I would never recognize or honor it but I would leave it at that. I came very close to not voting on it at all. But when it is thousands of people all over the sate marching on churches, without I will mention, the guts to march on a Black church or a predominantly mexican church or God forbid a Mosque as 85% of muslims voted for prop 8, it is not an isolated incident. And when people speak of the seperation of church and state, they fail to mention that Jefferson first used that phrase in a letter where he stressed the governments OBLIGATION to protect the church. But that is all beside the point. Any reason a person has for voting the way they do is sacred under our form of govt. If theireligion informs their nstinct, it is as valid and should be as valued as the athiest whos HATRED of religion informs his instinct and tries to impose his LACK of belief on the rest of us. There are many reasons I did not support gay marriage. What happened to my kid Just pissed me off about it. I may cool off, but I doubt it. Either way, I will have to exercise my constitutional right to protest right back in your faces if the court reverses this vote. Last word from me. I looked back at my other post and the words "take it to the streets" could be construed as a call to violence. For that I apologize.

Theresa,

You are obviously the one who has trouble reading. You stated that the Bible can neither be proved nor disproved, so I offered an example that contradicts your original statement and you respond with an insult.

A typical liberal response to a valid point that they themselves can not repute is to immediatley move to defamation in an effort to cover up their own falability. My point is that despite assertions to the contrary liberals are not always right; and they rarely - if ever - acknowledge their mistakes.

Randy, I have withheld comment on the tomb of moses mother, because I felt I needed to research it first.  I don't like to comment on things of which I have little or no information.  But since you are pressing the issue, it is my understanding (without benefit of further research) that the tomb of which you speak is one that was discovered by "biblical archaeologists", and is not what they claim.  Because biblical archaeology is often considered a fringe science, there are not a lot of peer reviewed articles on their finds, and they seldom publish anything themselves, at least not in mainstream journals. 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and I apologize for the strong language. My understanding on the tomb question is that because the discovery of such a tomb would prove the Koran to be a lie the Egyptian government has ended any further examination of the site and will no longer grant permits to anyone wishing to excovate the site.

The same thing is going on in Jerusalem where Archaeologists are digging beneath the wall fo Solomon and uncovering artifacts that Islam claimed did not exist. These artifacts are being discovered in areas identified in the Tora...

"Freedom is the greatest gift God has given on to man" these people are - by their own admission - Godless

Anybody (in this country or elsewhere) who enjoys freedom, enjoys that freedom because people fought and died for it.  Don't demean their sacrifice by crediting some mythical being.

Once again you refuse to acknowledge the origin of the idea of freedom. What came first; the fight for freedom or the idea of freedom?

First came the belief then came the fight, people did not fight for the sake of fighting and then discover freedom. Homosexuality is a choice much like joining a club that treats its members diffrently then non-members.

Examples are everywhere but lets just mention Billy Jean King and Ann Hesch for starters. Each of these individuals where champions of the "Homosexual movement" and each of these people left the Homosexual club to marry men and have children of their own.

Any group that you are free to leave at a time of your choosing is by definition a club and clubs do not qualify for preferential treatment. 

That is perhaps the most stupid comment I think I have heard in a long time. What you know about Choice, I could shove up a gnats ass and have room and an ice cube.

Billie Jean King didn't "leave" the homosexual lifestyle you twit. Anne Hesch is an admitted bisexual.

So, before you open your piehole and make an ass out of yourself, get your facts straight.

I guess that says something about the people of Connecticut then. Brainwashed by the liberal media. The people of Connecticut voted 2-1 to allow immoral an immoral lifestyle that is destroying our nation and brainwashing our children. Now that is very sad, and it really makes me worry about what's going on in this nation. Abortions, gay marriage, a socialist president-elect who is married to a woman who says things like "I've never been proud of my country until now" ... what's next? You people are destroying the moral values of this nation. This shining city on a hill is falling apart thanks to liberals.

Well "Lady" - Connecticut kicked the south's butt in the civil war - guess that made you angry.

Aren't the arguments against same-sex marriage very similar to the anti-black sympathies of the 50s & 60s?

The world didn't come to an end then, and it won't now.

Moderator:  I don't think anyone's post (Lady of the South, Dan Tanner, etc.) should be deleted.  I don't agree with them, but they do have a right to be heard.  We still have freedom of speech in this country, Bush & Cheney didn't take it away. Yet. Plus in any kind of dispute, it's always good to know what the other side is thinking.

Awesome pitz13!!!!! Thank you !!!

If they delete posts that do not break the COH they will get restored and the moderator can lose privledges...