Obama's true colors: Black, white ... or neither?

You are right. America is on the verge of a complete meltdown (depression) and we have these idiots worried about whether our next President is Black Or White. He is an American . If everyone would pull together as Americans and quit worring about their color we would be lots better off. It is always what can you do for me, instead of what   can I do to help America. Go spend a little time in Iraq so you can appreciate America. God Bless Our Troops.

 I don't care if he is green as long as the Country is put on a path leading to recovery. 

I cannot hardly believe the media or anyone would care of what the skin color or nationality of the newly elected president is!!! We are fighting wars on two fronts, (actually more!!) something that hasn't been done since WWII!!! Why is the media not addressing this??? People cannot retire because the stock market is total $#!t!! We have so many other fish to fry!!! We used to have pride in this being the best country in the world to live in.... Lets hope that this PERSON who has been elected, can pull us out, and bring America back to what it is known through out the world to be!!! Why does this have to be a race thing??????

I agree with the above comments.  We have much more important issues to contemplate than someones race or ethnic background.

This is an insane post - as a country we are trying our best to come together and these idiots are driving wedges anywhere possible - even where there is no openings to start with.  I just don't get it.

One key attribute of a successful leader is the ability to empathize with a variety of people.  One of Obama's greatest strengths may be the fact that he is multiracial.

I don't care what color his skin is, but I think his multiculturalism is a major asset.

This I agree is a insane post. It continues the race issue, and for what purpose. mr  Obama Is an American.....As anyone born here. Color was an issue many years ago and will emain one as long as it benefits those that use it.  We are all living in a time that allow anyone to acheve what ever they want.  Families have much to do with what their children can and will do. This mans family gave him a chance to become what he has become, and that is the President -elect of these United States. 

This is just a case of the media trying to inflame and divide the american people in order for them to acheive their rating for the sake of making more money.

Barrack Obama and his family are americans! they may not be the party of your choice, they may not share your ideals but irreguardless they are american.This article is a personal attack on every man women and child in this country it should have never been printed and the persons responsible should be fired immediatly any other response would show the true intent of this media outlet and their attempt to racialy divide our country even further

Totally agree with this American. The jerks responsible should be fired or shut down the complete operation. Lets unite and defeat this kind of barbaric thoughts. 

Obama may be the Cause,  for excepting People as Human Beings and Americans as

Americans....PERIOD!

I don't see why the racial makeup of anyone should be a issue.  I suppose people feel compelled to talk about it, so be it.  If we ever get to the point where we consider ourselves human beings and treat others as we would expect or hope to be treated we can get past evaluating someone's relevance by their ethnic or racial makeup.  It is always puzzling to me that the people who consider themselves so enlightened always find a way to inject race into the conversation .  The words are just lip service but I would maintain that someone who always finds this issue has more issues with it than those who live their life treating others fairly and compassionately. 

I can't understand why are you Americans still hung up on race. The news media is really promoting racism. Regardless to whatever color President-Elect Obama is claiming that's his damn business, and why is everyone so much againist skin color? Racism is the number one biggest problem that we have in America. So I am suggesting that you racist stop your discriminating, and allow the man to service his country. America is suppose to be the land of the FREE??? get real about that bs, due to the fact that many foreigners are treated better then we treat our own people. Its a shame that I have heard my own people bash Obama (By the way I am Black), and it was the many American voters who elected Obama not just one race of people.   

All I have to say is Great Story and let it speak for itself.

Though Obama is preaching diversity, which I agree with, the bottom line is that he is black. The truth is that in this country, as long as you have a little bit of black blood in you and your melanin is clearly visible, then an individual has always been characterized as black. Obama even said that he has been treated and categorized as black and so he is black. When Americans try to challenge this instead of looking at Obama like maybe we were wrong about Blacks, maybe they are not all bad, "ghetto", "poor", "uneducated", "ebonics-speaking", etc., some would rather try to discredit and say that he is not black now. Well how come throughout the entire campaign he was black (Hilary, and McCain) and now he is diverse. He is a black man who stands for all people in this country and has identified with all people in this country, but please do not try to minimize this for everything blacks have tried so hard to accomplish.  

vvm, right on!

President-Elect Obama serves as a fine role model for all of us.  His thinking and actions are inclusive.  "We are not red America or blue America...."  Being able to hold conflicting ideas simultaneously  in one's mind, is a sign of intelligence.  We all need to think more inclusively, incorporating many ideas to solve the problems of our Country and the world.

This "subject" is completely irrelevant.

Tom, the pres could not "destroy" Palin WITHOUT all the material SHE provided them with.

Time to take our cue from the PE Obama, we are Humans and Americans...see how easy that is...That's it. We as a country need to unite and come together. We must do so for the good of our country, because divided we will surely fail/fall.

We are living in the greatest times in the history of the United States of America. We owe it all to PE Obama. I am proud to call  myself an American, now that the shrub will be gone/is gone. 8 years of his Amin doing their very best to split our country and he failed, thank goodness!!!

My hope is that America will unite and stand together for PE Obama and VPE Biden.

All I can say is WOW, I was a witness to history being made and I will speak of him to my children and tell them how one man was able to bring us all together, even those that opposed him. In time those that are not happy with the change will change their minds, one can still hope.

How courageous of PE Obama to run for office and win during these times of turmoil. I know many will come back here and send me flames, go ahead it is your right to do so, I may not like it, but you have the right to disagree with me. This is the America I was born to.

At the end of the day we are all humans and doing our very best to make the world we live in a bit more tolerant of others. The change has already started. Thank You President Obama, doesn't that have a nice ring  to it.

Imagine that...a president much like the people of the country...more like humanity, that race comes into question to what the piss are you?  I think I have that question asked of me on many occasions, I like my multicultural skin and background. 

It is what makes us human...I may have not liked Obama to much when he ran because I found his views astray from reality, but you never know he may be the next blue suit...just hope the outcome is not the same as the blue suited president.  Let us see if the change is for good or everything stays the same...I think he might be a smurf though...may be just may be

I thought we had finally got to a point in this country that we didn't focus on the color of a persons skin, only their qualifications??

This is really  kind of a silly question-there aren't too many of us who aren't "mongrels". "Blacks" are rarely purely Black as a result of Black slave mistresses to white owners, cases like the Jefferson-Hemmings family, rape, and later, intrmarriage, sometimes legal, sometims not. I think the question is more a matter of culture. I am half Ukraine, half from all over the British Isles, but grew up in a small, conservative WASP/German farm town. He's human, I'm human and presume most of the postings here are written by humans. When I was growing up we always celebrated both the "English"(as my Ukraine grandmother called it) Christmas and Easter as well as the Eastern Orthodox. To look at me, people would assume I am a WASP, but I am not. Diversity is what makes this country different, from all others: the fact that somewhere in our families, someone made a conscious choice to become American, except fot the slaves, which weren't always Black African.

I voted for intelligence and personal, soul-filled, belief in what greatness Americans have within themselves to forge forward, in this unprecidented time, to be great, again.  Skin color is not an issue!

We are fortunate to have both diversity in ethnicity and intelligence in our beloved country.  We can now benefit with our President-elect to give us guidence in the task ahead.  Americans ARE the BEST in rejuvenating our country and we MUST be PREPARED FOR THE TASK AT HAND.

Focus, work hard, and we will realize our second GOLDEN ERA!!  WE ARE AMERICANS .  .TOGETHER, AGAIN!!

Be Proud, ALL Americans.  WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION!!

"WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION!!"?

I thought nationalism was the cousin of racism?

Let me get this straight : you embrace "diversity" so you can effectively destroy it, by blending everyone together, label that "American" and then push an even broader form of bigotry?  If racism is wrong, national pride is also.  What makes you better than anyone else in the world?

When do we all quit being a color and become the children of God we all are.  My mother and sister are white but tan enough to be considered "colored, black. bi-racial . . .ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - IF WE MUST DESIGNATE EACH ONE FROM ANOTHER THEN we are where we are born - American, Mexicans, Africans, English, Australians, . . DUH!

Black, white, whatever.... One thing for sure:

HE IS NOT AN AMERICAN!

POOR BOB!

(You can't separate the chocolate from the milk anymore, Bob, so why not enjoy!)

Poor Bob! Bob, you're not pure Bob! Certainly not pure white.

What does that mean, anyway? Even Hitler didn't look the part he was promoting to such evil extremes. Hitler was certainly not blonde, nor blue-eyed. White is just a cultural label, like fool, Bob !!  But, a fool used to be a clever person, would you believe it? A fool was a man who could entertain world leaders with his wit and brazen, bizarre behavior.

There was a time too, Bob, when all fools were gay, did you know!! You see, the meaning of words change in the course of a single lifetime.  They're not worth fighting over. Friends, family, national ideals, these are things worth dying for. Black, white, gay, straight, fool, entertainer, those words are too amorphous to be worth fighting over. Pick a culture and live it. Pick a team and cheer for it. But fighting over it, nah! It's like going to jail for beating the guy next to you senseless simply because he yelled, "Go Red Sox!" Now that guy in jail, he's a fool! Are you?

You see, I'm old enough to remember when gay meant merry! It doesn't any more. So there's no denying that black no longer means what it once meant. Culturally, Obama is as white as the next white, not European, but white. Like  any French speaking American in Paris though, he's learned to speak the language of blacks, somewhat, because everyone took one look at his skin coloring and decided he was black.

Take heart Bob. The white culture has a legacy you have every right to be proud of. It's certainly done more than its fair share to advance the circumstances of mankind. But up to a few years ago, ever since the Middle Ages, whites were killing each other over which of them were Papists and who were Protestant, or Roundheads and Cavaliers, or whatever. That's not even the half of it!

Personally, I don't give a sh ... eepshead anymore what he is. You know why, Bob? Because, I'm not the fool, Bob! No point crying over spilt milk Bobby boyo. "It done happened!" You can't separate the chocolate from the milk anymore, Bob, so why not enjoy! Have a great life, child!

All I heard was blah give up, blah, give in, blah let someone else do it for you.

And ah yes I am pure! PURE 100% American... Who just happens to have Italian and Irish ancestors. I could give a rats arse about Italy/Ireleland in comparison to how I feel about the USA. I look Italian and I am treated as an Italian here and in Sicily because of my looks... yet somehow UNLIKE Obama I did not let that define me.

I guess he is just weaker.

But maybe you and the 63 million other fools would have be siding with the King in the 1770s (I could hear you now... Aw just give him a chance afterall taxes make this place run and we are treated the same)... How nice it must be to live in your world where Ice Cream comes from perfect cows... Its American like me that realize that you have to feed the cow and clean up its @!$%# too!!!

Pres-elect Obama's father was African and his mother American...Isn't calling him African-American not only politically correct but also quite accurate

apparently Bob M doesn't travel the world much, if that's what he honestly thinks.  Also, our culture is American culture, you don't gain or lose that based on who your parents were.

One of the most touching moments, and very key to helping to understand Obama, is when he describes ads in the backs of magazines (in "Dreams from My Father") selling potions that were supposed help a Black man appear to be White. The actual result in the "after" photos was just a kind of weid appearance that really did not look like any particular race. I remember those, myself. I rember wondering why anyone would deliberately do that to him/herself, it was so strange looking.

Actually Capt Tripps, I've been to a number of foreign countries.  Please stop make assumptions.  You still haven't answered my question either : how is race-mixing good if in fact it destroys variety?  If you tell me my question doesn't have merit, I'll regard that as a dodge.

Race-mixing accomplishes exactly what the Nazis intended... racial homogeneity.  Its just that its accomplished via free-for-all mongrelization as opposed to eugenics.  People who say they want to move beyond race, are more than likely expressing some level of inability fitting in, so in a way race-mixers and the Nazis had a lot in common.  They wanted to create a racially uniform future for their country.  There is no way around this.  The result is the same.  If you believe in "diversity" then you must necessarily agree that our differrences have value, and by extension should be preserved.

It's mind bogling to me to see an article concerning wither President-elect obama can be considered black or not.  Who really cares, other then narrow minded racests.  The important thing about Barak Obama is that he wants to put this country back on the right track.

Incidently, for those who seem so concerned abnut his race.  Until about 1970, in some states if a white person had just 2 percent black blood, he or she was considered black.

I agree with Jim, who cares about the color.  Color is something so prevelant in this damn country about everything.  When are we going to wake up and realize that America has Americans of all colors and hue!  Only racists in this country have called anyone that has any Black in them as being registered as Black or African American.  Those of mixed parents have no choice in this country.  It's sad, it's as though the other parent that isn't Black has nothing to do with that person coming into the world.  Will we as a nation ever stop being ignorant of this, I doubt it.  It is what it is!

What the hell difference could it possib ly make?  I think this is a deliberate post to get everyone fired up; nothing more.  I've never heard ANYONE say, he's not black or he's not white.  This is bogus.  Someone at MSNBC made it up. 

As for Sarah Palin, she didn't need any help with her destruction; she was very good at self-mutilation.

grrgto

HE IS NOT AN AMERICAN!

Then what is he?

I have served three tours in the middle east with the most recent being 18 months away from my family and will be re-deployed back to Afganistan in February.

Starting off with Afganistan, in-and-out of Pakistan along with several missions in Iraq.

Now....I'm no hero as my wife and my 8 year old son are my heroes!

However, my point is that I have led many men into battle, and standing beside me were whites, blacks and hispanics.....  never did I once hear mention of race.

To us there is only one race.....

THE HUMAN RACE!!

I agree he's not really black.

Since when is a guy half white and half black necessarily black?   That sounds like an idea right out of the antebellum South, where you were either "pure" or "not pure."   He (like an increasing number of people) defies simple racial classification.   If small minds simply MUST have a one-word label, may I suggest:   "Obama." 

I haven't heard him refer to the White House as the Wizzle Hizzle or say flajizzle so he cannot be black.

I have however heard that he sings the Muslim "Call to prayer" in a perfect Arabic dialect and it is quite sobering. He learned that in Indonesia while studying the Koran. Read his two books.

...still an Illinois politician...and still no certainty around the 'official' birth certificate...when Tony Rezko talks, he will end up with Ryan and Blago in jail...

...sad to find out that Obama Nation is just another crooked state...

...and with all his Clinton appointments...even his 'change' philosophy is a crock!

This preoccupation with skin color is pure nonsense. Barack is however a stepping stone for the true liberation of African-Americans. Barack is not the descendant of slaves, and he was not raised by descendants of slaves. His mother is a Caucasian PhD. and his father is a Harvard educated Kenyan who also had a Harvard educated father and who never in their family history have looked at life as slaves have. Barack's cultural heritage, his childhood recollections are not the same as the typical African-American, even those of diluted African blood, who grew up immersed in a society of segregation, racism, hate, and limitations. Because of his appearance, Barack most certainly had to deal with the above mentioned evils in American society. He did not however come home to a family where even one other family member had spent a lifetime dealing with the same issues, with the contradictions in American society. Barack came home to the key to liberation for all people. A belief that hard work, education and most importantly, a big DREAM can take you to your dreams. Barack is the beginning of belief for African-Americans that truely anything is possible. If we as Americans can have presidents with New England accents (JFK), with Texas accents (LBJ, G Dubya), with southern accents(Jimmy), and all the other "flavored" accents we've had, then one day true liberation for all Americans will come when someone who maybe has some of the flavor in their voice of the deep south African-American is elected president. That will be the day when all things are possible. I did not vote for Barack. I do not agree with most of his perspectives, because I believe he does not expect the same work ethic out of the people who support him as he demonstrates himself. I do however celebrate his success in opening peoples eyes in this country to the fact that: "It's what's on the inside of a person that matters, not what's on the outside."

White people are, for the most part pathetic. With all of the issues that face us a nation, the angry, dominant (for now) white culture needs to change the rules about what is and what isn't white so they can feel good about this gift we have been given in President -elect Obama. Pathetic! Just Pathetic!

A lot of Americans are "mutts."  I am an I am entirely white.  I'm a Northern European mutt and the product of the mixture of nations that used to hate each other and call names.

I don't think Obama looks "black" but looks more like his Arabic ancestors.  Those who came to that part of Kenya and brought Islam (which is his family heritage) and who were heavily engaged in the slave trade.  I promise not to blame the Arab part of Obama's heritage for slavery if he won't blame whites for slavery either since those of us on earth today had no part in it any more than his Black/Arab slave trader ancestors did.

Let's all just get past that and we whites aren't guilty of anything.  Indeed one of my family members was a famous anti-slavery worker in the early 1800's and another was a Congressman from Illinois who hosted the underground railroad (not the underground weatherment who are Obama's pals) in his home during slave days.

Being Black is not a percentage issue, nor a complexion, or geographical issue. Historically, esp. in our country, "one drop" of Black blood makes one Black, but I notice that when it comes to positive contributions Black people make in our country arguments are made against "how Black" they actually are.

Perhaps some White Americans are still having issues dealing with the fact that we have elected a Black man as our president, but a huge part of the reason that every one in Africa, South Asia, South America, Europe, & the Caribbean applaud us so loudly with Obama's election is due to the fact that he is a man representing a demographic in our country that has been historically the minority, discriminated against, and oppressed... Black.

I don't care what arguments anyone tries to make against how not black he is. When his picture is standing next to all the other presidents in our country's history, lol, it will be clear

Arguments like this have unfortunately are quite familiar to African-Americans when it comes to our historical achievements. LOL...

I guess Obama spent so much time trying to get those "blue collar whites" to forget he was Black, I guess it worked!! Ha! Yes We Can.

Great post.  I do not understand why it is so important to some to continue to discuss Obama's race.  it is his right to claim himself however he wants to and where he is most comfortable.  As you so eloquently stated, the one drop rule was used in the south to label one as being black.  It is amazing to me now that Obama is to be president, all of a sudden he is not all black.  If all were to take a look, that would apply to a large number of blacks living in this country.  If Obama was on America's most wanted I highly doubt so many would be denouncing his blackness.

Ming, I am not sure denouncing a focus on the concept of race can be labeled as "denouncing his blackness."  It would seem to me those wanting to assign a specific label are more worthy of being called "racists" than the other way around.

You say "I do not understand why it is so important to some to continue to discuss Obama's race." Then you essentially say it is important to you that he be "black."  Those two seem in conflict.

Personally, I wish news sources would reduce emphasis on assigning racial labels at all, whether talking about a criminal suspect or a President.  I just think it is an outdated and meaningless idea.  I don't know why it is considered "tasteless" for an individual to harp on race endlessly, but considered "reporting" for a reporter to do so.  Time to move on, I think.

"Race" is , was, and always shall be an issue.

Obama has said, "I identify as African-American — that's how I'm treated and that's how I'm viewed. I'm proud of it." In other words, the world gave Obama no choice but to be black, and he was happy to oblige.

Not only is it an issue for some people of other races, it's an issue even within our own Black community. I've had to deal with it in some of the silliest of situations. "Why is your hair silky? must be White folks in your family. Why are your son's eyes so hazel and yours brown, is his daddy white? Your children speak such correct English, they're so proper, do they attend a predominantly white school? AND when I was a child, the "light skinned" girls were the majorettes, the school queens, and the lead female in all the plays. the light skinned boys were treated with more courtesy as young men, were called "young man" by the teachers and the dark skinned boys were addressed as "boy", the light skinned boys were given the leading man parts, escorted the queens could ask for and receive tutoring in classes.

Race Issues? It's not new. It hasn't changed. Funny thing though. Barrack Obama was Black everywhere, and as he said, treated as such, before he ran for president, then he was elected (making history) and now he's not Black anymore.

What counts for Blacks and any other ethnic or racial group, even for Whites, is how you handle the way you're treated. I think Obama has shown us how.

It's not that BO may be to black or to white.  He is to green.  That's right, he has no experience.  He comes from a corrupt state and has chosen Rhambo to be his Chief of Staff that is now in hiding.  He said he was going to repeal the "Bush tax cuts" now saying that won't happen until they actual run out.  He said he was going to impose a windfall profits tax on the oil company's, now he isn't going to.  He has no answer anymore and has taken down his so-called middle-class tax cut calculator from his website.  His greenness is starting to show and I fear I was hoodwinked by this guy.  His true color is really beginning to show and he hasn't even gotten to work yet.  Kinda scary if you ask me.

"it's an issue even within our own Black community"

1.   Think about someone saying "our own White community."  I haven't ever heard that phrase, outside of maybe a news story on the KKK.  It just isn't said.  I don't have some pithy conclusion to draw,  but I find it curious that one is acceptable speech and the other is not.

2.   Anyway, I am prepared to just give up and consider myself as "unknown origin."    I would suggest others do the same.  It starts with your perception of yourself.  Think about it - if you go back 10 generations, that's 1024 ancestors.  And you don't know jack about any of them (*).   Neither do I.   Considering yourself to be "raceless" is not just an ideal - it is actually a more factually correct view.

(*) OK, maybe you know 1-2 of them if you are an avid geneologist

The US Census now allows a person to select multiple categories, and a person's race is self-determined.  You are what you choose to be.

Exactly!  I'm just arguing that he should show pride for ALL that he is (ethnic as well as racial groups) by proudly listing all he is, and we should not only respect that, but feel good about it. 

Personally, I don't feel anyone should have to "fill in" the ethnicity. I'm an American who happens to be of Sicilian descent. In some circles I would be considered black. Some Italians don't believe Sicilians are Italian. Being Italian or Sicialian was no picnic either when my grandparents came through Ellis Island. There was plenty of prejudice, like the Irish before them. There are still stereotypes everywhere for all cultures.

 groups are divided according to their economic class.. You notice the ones with money, no matter what color / descent )?) they from certainly don't hang out with the poor unless they are handing them meals or looking good for themselves. Its all BS I can say this Obama went both direction's. to help the poor and to end up in the wealthy. Therefore he knows the spectrum. I voted for the man.l Period

I think we have to move away from being "proud" of things we have no control over.  Should I be "proud" that my hair is brown, or my eyes blue?  I can be proud of things I control, like pride in my accomplishment.  We can be proud of the accomplishments of our fellow humans in overcoming racial adversity.  We can be proud of Obama's accomplishments and the efforts of generations to create a nation in which his accomplishments are now possibe.

However, to automatically be proud because of an accident of birth is to put a false value judgment on something one has no control over.  The alternative is to be "ashamed" of one's height or hair color or, yes, skin color.  Those are false value judgemnts and can easily be manipulated by making one "ashamed" of being of one race or another as easily as it can elicit "pride" in being of one race or another.

"I'm really ashamed of my heritage.  In this great nation of racial diversity, I'm, sadly, MONORACIAL!" (Big Grin) 

Matthew

How does an-other American sound? As for me, my family comes from Ireland and maybe Wales. Who cares? Time for another Guinness.  

The whole story is little more than divisive nonsense.

Nice try msnbc, you pander to the least among us who who think stuff like this has relevance.

I think "MUTT" is an excellent word, used by Obama himself. I seriously doubt ANYONE in America is totally one race or another. One of the biggest problems we have as a country is continuing to insist that we have to label folks as one thing or another. I am Italian/Native American/Portuguese. If I had to figure out a category to label myself, I would call it a "WOPOKEE". Easier to say mutt. Think about it, some of the best, most loyal dogs one can get is a mutt, because it has the best traits of all it's breeds..If calling someone a mutt is a racial slur, then we as a "PEOPLE", have learned nothing and are unwilling to change. Nothing can grow in stasis. It is about time to consider growing and changing.

I think I grew up with that being my name...mutt and in some areas...half breed heh I just hated the term they used for a mule that was kind of mean...HA donkey and horse...

Bob - as both a man with many bi-racial friends, and the parent of 2 mixed kids, I have to say, you are probably one of the most overt racists I have come across on these boards, in a long, long time.

For everyone else, the only thing that should limit who you sleep with is opportunity.  Personally, my little black book could be run as a Benneton ad.

capt, bob is obviously the result of 'in-breeding' rather than cross-breeding. 

Well of course Capt Tripps you would justify your own behavior.  You don't address my points, mainly, that cross-breeding destroys diversity long term.  Don't you think its a bit hypocritical to champion diversity, if in fact the result is the destruction of variety?  Again, I think you push diversity for no other reason than the fact you've spawned mixed children yourself, and you're looking for legitimacy.  Well if you truly believe in diversity, then you should support my decision NOT to race mix.  I believe in REAL diversity, i.e. that we  should preserve the distinct groups of people that God or nature created.  Who are YOU to destroy that?  Someone taking orders from below the belt?

ohiogal, name calling doesn't invalidate any of the points I've made.  If you wish to believe I am in-bred, well I guess you're entitled to your own coping mechanism.

I wonder why so many forms we fill out have the litle boxes to check: white, Black, Asian, Native American, etc.? I can sort of understand the census wanting to know, and it's supposed to be anonymous anyway. As for the rest. it's no one's business, really. South Africa had a really srict (and strange) classification system accordin to "race". Indian Indians were "Coloreds" though they are as Caucasian as me. It was all a matter of skin color and seemed to have little to do with true racial classifications. It all seem rather silly in a way. As I said before, it is more a matter of culture. My Ukraine Grandmother called my Mother, with descendants from all over the British Isles, "That English Woman" behind her back (in a derogatory way) for years after my Dad refused to go along with marrying the good, Ukranian girl his parents had picked out for him. I'm still glad I had a little multi-culturalism in my family. It gave me the curiosity to look at and try to understand other cultures I come in contact with with more interest than asuming I am better than than soneone else or vice versa because of their culture, ethnicity, skin color, religion or gender preference. The tension mu Ukraine grandmother created always seem so silly to me, especially because my parents were so willing to actively honor each others' backgrounds. They were married in the Presbyterian church, but we kids were christened in the Eastern Orthodox church, and both my parents sang in each others' church choirs. And, as I stated previously, we had two Easters and two Christmases with very different ways of celebrating. It was great!

I don't champion anything except equal opportunity and treatment, which for me includes what lies between legs of every color.  Also, God created one race - humans (technically he created a bunch of atoms, blew them apart, then watched them slowly form matter, planets, life, and sentience, but that's an argument for another thread.)  Our physical differences are cosmetic, derived from evolving in the differing environmental conditions on this globe we call home.  So quite frankly, there's nothing to mix.

and by no means let my opinion stop you from limiting your pollution of the gene pool to a few well chosen "pure" individuals.  You circle your genetic wagons, and we'll see which of our lines die out first.

It's funny, but frequently it is the second or third generation of an ethnic group to come to this country that is most interested in preserving whatever culture is in their background, not in order to set themselves apart or declare supremacy, but because they find it interesting. The snooty stuff  often comes a lot later, as in when an English great aunt of mine decided she wanted to join the Daughters of the American Revolution. She did the necessary genealogy, and there were indeed ancestors who fought in the Revolution. But her research came to a screeching halt when she found that some of them had come to the colonies as refugees from the law: they were horse thieves and highwaymen in England! I have the papers in my possession now, and it cracks me up! She was so proud of finding out that the Harrisons came into the family-one being a signatory to the Declaration and two who became presidents, though not especially noteworthy ones. But when she got to the horse thieves, she couldn't stop the researcher she had hired fast enough! What counts is the content of one's character, as a certain "Black"said. This particular great aunt was not known for the content of her character for reasons I won't go into, but she got into the DAR!

Capt Tripps, its a question of quality versus quantity.  You and your attitudes herald the decline of the American empire.  As I said in another post, the next century will belong to the Russians and the Chinese.  Go back to watching TV and plotting how to pay off your credit cards.

Well of course Capt Tripps you would justify your own behavior.  You don't address my points, mainly, that cross-breeding destroys diversity long term.

Who cares? who gives a flying frisbee? 

You know how many generations and it will take to destroy the diversity you are concerned about?  We'll all be dead and buried then. These convos will be obsolete and society would have moved on to the next thing.

Worrying about conserving a melanin trait that is insignificant in the realm of science will do nothing but increase rate of genetic mutations in an isolated population. 

IMO people should go with nature and mix it up!

Nature produced the variety you seek to destroy.  How is that going with nature?  There are more differences between peoples than melanin.  It may be political expedient to downplay those differences, but they exist nonetheless.  And btw, there are FAR more white people today than there were at previous points in history, they survived then, so I wouldn't be over-concerned that the modern gene pool is inadequate.

Its interesting to me that, here we are in 2008 - beneficiaries of hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection, and we choose to degenerate.  Watch the movie Idiocracy when you get a chance.

Most of us are mutts and I'm proud of it, too.  America is the MELTING POT OF THE WORLD.  Thank goodness for Democracy!!!

yeah, we're degenerating.  Because breeding within a closed genetic circle produces such stellar, results, huh?  Like I said, good luck with that, natural selection at it's finest.  You can go the way of every other species closed off from genetic diversity.

Europeans prior to the age of exploration were not in a closed genetic circle, and there were FAR less then than there are in modern times.  Do you seriously think that if every non-white person fell off the planet that the remaining whites would be doomed to extinction?  Do you think that the native americans would have become inbred morons if Europeans had never came to North America?  On the contrary, it was the momentum of Europeans and their descendants that put men on the moon in the first place.  The route we've chosen will put us in the same boat as South Africa.  Did you know S.A. was the only country to develop nuclear weapons and then lose the technology?  You are part and parcel of the dumbing down of America.  We are no longer super-power grade material, and this Obama character is not so much an improvement but a symptom of how far we've fallen.

10 generations = about 250 years = 1024 direct ancestors.   So where are they all from?   The most avid geneologist might know 1-2 of them that far back.  

The fact is, the vast majority of us don't really know much more than "homo sapiens."

That was touching. It reminded me of Bill Murray's speech to his fellow soldiers in STRIPES.

Nature produced the variety you seek to destroy

as a way to convert dehydrocholestrol to vitamin D.  

Now that we have shelter and fortified milk the rate of conversion is now obsolete as the nails on our fingers or the coccyx of our spine. 

Jeez Bob, I didn't think they made them like you anymore.  Honestly.

BobM......................the "AMERICAN EMPIRE" as you call it, is TOTALLY made up of diverse races, and that includes mixed ones. As I said in an earlier post, I truly doubt there are ANY people in the world who are ONE, PURE Race. No such thing exists.

There is no such thing as a "pure" dog either, yet no one would argue that a pit bull, a chihuahua and a greyhound have the same genetic attributes, despite the fact that every modern dog is the descendant of domesticated wolves.  You guys can believe whatever makes ya feel good.  The white people who choose to persist will do so, and the ones who choose to race mix will become something else.  There is nothing new today than there was a hundred years ago, except maybe that the USA has shot its wad, and for maybe 60 years now has been given over to lesser men.

I agree that there are very few (if any) "pure" blooded races. But that fact does not mitigate that in America race is a HUGE deal, and we just elected our first Black president!!

 I heard Limbaugh trying to abate the "huge-ness" of this before Obama was even done w/ the primaries arguing he wasn't African-American b/c his father didn't come from those affected by the slave trade. I said to that stupidity, Hogwash! And I say to anyone trying dismiss that Obama is a Black man... Hogwash!

As I've written somewhere before, Obama's dad is from Africa! Most Black Americans are more "mixed up" than he is due to race mixing (voluntary/involutary) that has been taking place since slaves first arrived... They continue to self-identify themselves as Black, and for those unfortunate who try to live above race, American society will let them know they are Black

Yeah how long ago were the L.A. riots, where the blacks attacked Korean shop owners and pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck for beating because he was white?  A decade?  How long ago was all the Katrina looting, where the black cops were looting the local Wal-Mart right along-side the looters?  Skin color doesn't matter if you're willing to bury your friggin head in the sand.  Go ahead and pretend that all people are the same.

yeah your right.  And all the white citizens left after the storm were merely "gathering supplies" while the black citizens looted.

I don't recall seeing white looters in Katrina.  And good job skipping over the whole L.A. riots comment.  I suppose you'd say there where white rioters in L.A.?

I skipped over it because it has no merits, assuming your trying to portray black people as more violent than whites.

Also, you should try using your eyes, with regard to the looters after Katrina, or perhaps read up about it.

There is plenty on YouTube.  As far as blacks being more violent, when was the last time white people rioted?  Over anything?

As far as blacks being more violent, when was the last time white people rioted?  Over anything?

Guess you're not a football, soccer or hockey fan.

Ha, I guess you're right ohiogal.  I guess I was just thinking of stealing, killing, arson type events.  You know, the burn-a-1000-cars-in-the-Paris-suburbs-every-summer type crap.

like he said, apparently your not a soccer fan.

Not to mention rioting because your fed up with a corrupt police department backed up by local government and have no percieved outlets for your frustration, vs your team not kicking the ball in the net enought times, is well, different.

Here's a ponder - when's the last time a black guy wandered onto a "To Catch a Predator" set looking to hook up with a 14 yr old?

I dunno, maybe those are the kind of white people who think that the only reason not to sleep with someone is "opportunity", as you say.

Well, opportunity assumes willingness, and willingness assumes legality.  Durr.

Bob M

Having lived near the epicenter of three major Southern California earthquakes, I can assure you that the looters that I had the pleasure to observe casing the neighborhoods immediately after each of the quakes looked all white to me.  That's probably because I lived in predominantly white neighborhoods.  The fact that the rioting that you referred to took place in ghettos may have something to do with the racial composition of the rioters.

BTW, you will be unlikely to see food riots on Park Avenue in NY or demonstrations against police brutality on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.

When you look proudly at your lily-white skin, why not ask yourself how you came to be so pale.  After all, mankind, all of it, originated on the plateaus of Africa.  My best guess is that all humankind started out with a hefty share of melanin.  If any race has inbred and changed, it may very well have been the caucasians, in their adaptation to the colder ice age climes.

Please do not respond.  I will assume that you disagree with everything I wrote.  I do not wish to engage in a dialogue with you.

How about just saying that President Elect Obama is someone that we should all be proud of for everything that he has done since being elected. He's a reasonable, highly intelligent, and ethical man. Above all, he loves our country and will do everything he can to get us out of this nightmare that we're in. I don't care what skin color he is...it doesn't matter. What matters is what's in his head and how he plans on putting us all back on track.

Let us all look beyond skin color...religious beliefs...and cultural differences. We, as Americans, are all in this mess together and we need Obama to get us out or at the very least to push us in the right direction.

One does not get to be President of Harvard Review by being an idiot. We are indeed lucky to have him as our leader.

Stop looking at his skin color...look at what he does for our country.

BTW, before anyone jumps to any idiotic conclusions...I'm white and Jewish.

I wish him well and may G-d bless him and help him in these difficult times. 

ain't that the truth

Mutts unite!!!  YES!!!!!!!!!!  why do we even care about anyone's race?  isn't this supposed to be the melting pot - why won't we melt?

Disgruntled ER doc -

Are you really a doctor - a licensed medical doctor?

Actually, ER Doc, before you claim ignorance, it's better to know a bit about someone's religion/background. In the Jewish faith, God's name is never spelled out, thus G-d. Just a little FYI.

"God" is not God's name &mdash it is His Job Title!

God's true name is the .

To the ancient Greeks, Zeus and Apollo were 'gods". To the old Teutons, Odin and Thor were 'gods'.

Jews are commanded not to defile the name of God. Replacing the vowel "o" with a dash is more of a defilement than simply spelling out "God", even if "God" is not the Deity's name, just His Job Description.

See .

"I will never respect somebody who calls himself 'African-American' and tries to be the president."  -Disgruntled ER doc

I think that says it all.   

As a Christian, I find it no offense in honoring Jewish tradition that believes that the NAME OF G-D is So Extremely Holy, they choose to honor it by spelling it distinctly.

Newsvine has developed a bad habit if eliding hyperlinks.

In my entry, above, there was a reference to the Wikipedia article on the "Tetragrammaton". There was also another reference to Bet Yithra at http -colon- -slash- -slash- www -dot- Beth-Yithra -dot- org.

Excuse me, what EXACTLY has he done since being elected?

Duh! Bush is still President. Obama is President-elect. Just exactly what you expect him to be doing right now?

Maybe just calling him human would be the best description of all... a compassionate human who is not as interested about labels that others stick on him......Someone who is ready to get in and get the job done.

Rebel -

Newcomers to NewsVine are put on sort of 'probation' for a while. During that time they are not allowed to post links in a message - until the 'Vine staff determines they are not here to simply spam things.

You may want to contact Tyler and have him look at your posting history. If everything is OK, he'll flip whatever switch that needs to be switched to allow you to post links.

The president elect has yet to be sworn in "ER Doc"- what is it you expect that he should have done since being elected? Other than selecting his cabinet, I'm not sure what else he should be doing?  I appreciate the fact that he is choosing smart and capable folks for cabinet positions. I think he will do well with those folks under him.

As far as what he is called racially, if anyone can truly be called an African American it would be the president elect. His father was African and his mother was American, that  makes him an African American. Of course, not all Africans are black, so that throws a bit more confusion into the mix.

My husband has traceable ancestry that goes back into the 1600's here in these United States, so he feels he is truly an American, but he is also a black American. He does not feel he should have to identify with another country in his identification of race, as his family has been here longer than many white Americans who only have to identify as Caucasian.  The fact that our president elect is a man of color demonstrates that many people have come much farther than you have ER Doc, but we still have a lot of work to do.

Bob M, every time I think your posts couldn't possibly get any more racist or inflammatory, you go and prove me wrong. Kudos, I guess.

"Rachel, why does it not surprise me that with you being jewish that you'd be on-board with the whole race-mixing thing.  I guess coming out of WW2, jews identified white identity as their number one greatest threat.  Every time I see someone in the media or Hollywood now prescribing something to destroy white identity, there seem to be jews involved."

Almost all Jewish people are caucasian.  Or didn't anyone tell you?

Again, please do not respond, as I will assume that you and anyone like you does not get it.

Some jewish people are caucasian, yes.  Whats interesting about jews though is that they have prohibitions against intermarriage, yet seem to prescribe it for everyone else.  Ever wonder why thats the case?

"Ever wonder why thats the case?"

I don't need to wonder.  The Jews who wrote the Bible, living as they did in the Bronze Age, were as backward and bigoted as you are.

Modern Jews freely intermarry.  I'm a good example of that, as are many of my friends.

how true

I agree so much as well!

It is easy for people who come from the dominant group in a culture to refer to themselves as simply American.  When you are a minority it is a different story.

Greta-361382    B.S.  i am BLACK  not African American  inless you were born there

and even then you are either american or african  pick one

Greta,

This may be true for some, but when I live in Thailand with my wife and our family.  Our children are not referred to as American Thai, they are Thai.  But you are right western values are different and more devisive

Its funny that you would call me a neo-nazi and then suppress my right to expression.  None of you have addressed my points either.  Does race-mixing preserve diversity or destroy it?  I think you know the answer, but don't care.

One of the glories Heaven boasts is diversity: 

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and peoples, and tongues, stood before the Throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;   Revelation 7:9    

 From all nations, ethnic groups, countries, and languages.  Why is there anything wrong with celebrating and rejoicing and honoring each other's diverse heritage? 

 In nature, diversity is almost a law.  There seems to be an infinite variety of so many various kinds of . . . everything!  Each one of us is created so wonderfully unique. 

 What is so egregiously wrong with being and/or  referring to oneself as: an Italian-American, a Jewish American, a Vietnamese American, a Canadian American, an Arab-American, a German-American, a Muslim-American, a British American, a Christian-American, a Chinese-American, Indian-American, a Mexican-American, a Native American, or Chinese American, or Polish-English-Irish-Dutch-Danish American? 

 We are all enriched as Americans by this treasure of diverse backrounds and cultures.  This is our nation's greatest resource!  

 Let's not play it down by saying, "Oh well, we're all just vanilla". . ."We're all just americans."  "We all the same."  "I don't see color". . .  blah, . . . blah, . . .zzzzzz.   Wouldn't that be Boring?.

  Is that what we want?  The American race?

 " Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer! "  -Adolph Hitler.

Bob,

Its funny that you would call me a neo-nazi and then suppress my right to expression. 

Advising that you take your opinions to a more accepting place is not suppressing your right to expression.

None of you have addressed my points either. 

Perhaps that's because most people see them as absurd.

Does race-mixing preserve diversity or destroy it?  I think you know the answer, but don't care.

Race mixing has nothing to do with diversity unless the only diversity you're concerned about is physical.

Diversity comes from culture, history, and experience, not blood lines.

Jesse Jackson would never get elected because he's a belligerent and stupid bigot. I can't forget the day that he referred to NYC as "Hymietown". He's just a despicable person regardless of his skin color. I don't think he even knows how to behave decently. All one has to do is read what he wanted to do to Obama because he disagreed with Obama's statement that black men should take more responsibility for their families. Disgusting!

Agreed, the U.S. is not ready to elect a frank racist, such as J. Jackson, which is why the Democratic election team had to so thoroughly suppress Mrs. Obama into the background until the election was over.  Time will tell if she can overcome the bigotry she expressed in her doctoral thesis.

Unfortunately IMO Obama was elected because of his claimed race, largely overlooking his scarily socialist political views.  He believes government can provide answers to the U.S. ills...government is the problem, not the answer.

Obama was not elected because of his race. I voted for him and I am white. I truly believe that he can at least get us out of this horrible mess.

Randolf, where were you during the campaign!?  Mrs. O'Bama was all over the country working very publicly to help get her husband elected.  Unlike Palin who was suppressed, she was totally available for interviews.  It is understandable that you may not like some of the free speech she expressed many years ago, but I am sure, just as we all have, she matured, lived, and became a more wise person.

O'Bama's socialist views are only scary to people who prefer the Cheney anarchy we have lived under for eight years versus competent, thought- out decisions made by government who was given the job by the people instead the courts.  The only time government is a problem is when the citizens who elected them don't take time out of their busy, self-centered lives to hold them accountable for the decisions they make and policies they deploy.

To be considered something does not make you that thing.

ErDoc

If you don't agree with me thats fine. But to say I don't know who Clinton was is just plain out and out stupid. Name calling is what you resort to when someone does not agree with you and can't express it any other way. I'm not a typical Democrat as I have voted Repub. in the past. Have fun calling average Democrats stupid. I guess you will be hearing from them soon enough.

Randolph K -

Do you sometimes wonder why folks refer to people like you as 'extreme right-wing nutjobs'? Do you find that you have to lead off with insults in order to get anybody to listen to you? Are you sometimes frustrated because even after you get someone's attention - if he or she has an IQ greater than the temperature they don't take you seriously after they've listened to more than a couple of words? If so - look no farther than your message #8.2.

I suspect that you're getting your information second-hand, and that you haven't bothered to check on whether that second-hand (or perhaps even third- or fourth-hand) information is correct. Why do I suspect that?

First - Michelle Obama wasn't "surpressed". An article published as early in the campaign as Feb 4, 2008 (http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0443073120080204?sp=true) mentions that while she was hesitant at first to become involved in the campaign - she has been 'hitting the campaign trails'. The reason she was initially less visible was because she had a job, and was looking after the kids. Remember "Family Values"? Do you not support them now? Newsweek comments on this when it writes (http://www.newsweek.com/id/112849):

"From the beginning of the campaign, Michelle made it clear to her husband that she would give the effort her all ("We need to be in there now, while we're still fresh and open and fearless and bold," she told Vanity Fair last December), but not at the expense of family life."

Later, a May 18 New York Times article writes (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/18/us/politics/18michelle.html?_r=1&ref=politics):

"Now she is traveling as much as three days a week, headlining events and becoming an attraction in her own right."

USA Today noted that she had a busy summer schedule planned (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-29-michelleinside_N.htm).

If you really want to get your facts straight you can go to http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/dates/ and sort through each candidate's schedule - day by day - and see how many times Michelle Obama was not "surpressed". For instance, the schedule shows she made at least 8 presentations in the first two weeks of September. That's an average of one every other day. Hardly "supressed" - do you think?

Second - You didn't actually read her "doctoral thesis", did you? If you were really up on things, and if you had read it, you would have known that: 1) she doesn't have a doctorate, and 2) the first page clearly states that it's a thesis written in partial fulfilment of her Bachelor's degree.

Politifact has addressed your spurious charge that Michelle Obama's "doctoral thesis" expressed bigotry (see: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/504/).

But - don't believe me, and don't believe Politifact. If you're really curious, and want to put the time and effort into knowing what you are talking about - you can read Michelle Obama's senior thesis yourself. Here are the links:

Part 1 - http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf
Part 2 - http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_26-501.pdf
Part 3 - http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_51-751.pdf
Part 4 - http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_76-981.pdf

It's not too long - only 98 pages - and pretty interesting. There are only about 64 pages of text - the remainder is the tabluar results of her survey, a copy of her survey questionnaire, and the bibliography. If you read the thesis you'll see that many (if not most, or all) of the statements that have been extracted to 'prove' the thesis is 'bigoted' have been pulled out of context.

For instance - one such thesis statement that I've seen most-often extracted is: "Predominantly White universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the White students comprising the bulk of their enrollments." Now - that statement is found on page 58, in the section titled "New Hypothesis" - where she is framing a test of a new hypothesis about why some Black alumni responded to her questionnaire by saying that they became more interested in the Black community during their stay at Princeton - more than either before or after their stay. She was adapting the ideas of another author to her new hypothesis. She was trying to put forth 'testable' propositions.

CBS notes (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/26/politics/uwire/main3881166.shtml):

"After surveying 89 black graduates, Obama concluded that attending the University as an undergraduate decreased the extent to which black alumni identified with the black community as a whole.

Obama drew on her personal experiences as an example.

This seems to indicate that she evolved into a 'less Black-oriented' person, in concert with the respondents to her survey, as the result of her Princeton education.

I'm not even going to start on your second paragraph.

So - log off the WorldNewsDaily, don't believe everything Limbaugh says is gospel, find some actual facts - and then when you return to the table we can have a meaningful, informed discussion.

Yes, Obama WAS elected in large part because he is "black" and played the race card against white people's "guilt" that they were supposed to somehow have.  He also mobilized almost every black in America to vote for him  (what do the numbers say, something like 94 to 1 blacks voting for Obama, especially in large cities where their votes would swing states to Obama).  Those black votes for Obama, many very uninformed regarding the issues, are seen all over the news media as blacks are giddy about "my black president."  THOSE people don't seem to regard him as primarily an American who was elected Pres, but as a black man.  Blacks who voted for him because of his skin color (since the vote count was 53/48 roughly, yet among blacks it was 94 to 1), could mean that 45% of blacks delivered a racist vote.

The article above says he was Hawaiian born.  Why do they make this claim when Obama still, with all the requests to do so, REFUSES to prove it, and even earlier this year displayed that phony certification to stave off criticism.

Obama was admitted to Harvard Law School as they, in their liberal bent, wanted to admit a certain percentage of minorities.   Was he a "minority hire," or affirmative action admit?  I don't know, as he has failed to produce his grades from either college he attended or from Harvard.  Obama's law school class was 25% minority.

So many questions, so much continuance of avoiding the answers by Obama.

This mess stems from poor oversight of financial institutions who helped innumerate (that means "lots of") people get exotic mortgages to purchase homes they had no business purchasing.

Actually, innumerate doesn't mean "lots of". If means "unfamiliar with mathematical concepts or unable to use math".

Disgruntled ER doc -

Innumerate -
adj.
Unfamiliar with mathematical concepts and methods.
n.
A person who is unfamiliar with mathematical concepts and methods.

I find that ironic, and at the same time, fitting. I'll let you figure out what word you really intended to use.

Are you really a licensed medical doctor?

PS: RNoel - I was writing this while you were posting. I pushed "Post Message" only to see yours had gotten there first. Sorry for 'double-posting'.

Disgrunt,

Keeping watching Fox, listening to Rumbaugh.  You seem to think you are smarter than anyone else.  Why, then, are you so out of touch with reality.  Look at the Obama transition team.  Centrist.

Clinton did begin the "everyone needs a home and mortgage", but who has been in charge the last 8 years.  And don't try to blame the last 2 on the Dems.  They didn't have enough votes to pass anything.  You can't, in all your brilliance, believe that  the "W"  administration isn't primarily responsible for what happened on his watch.  What happened to the old "the buck stops here."  

Remember the surplus during the Clinton years?   Duh.  

Greta, you are right about Clinton signing the everyone needs a home and a mortage, but if you look back it was actually the Repugs that brought it up for a vote.  But they want to blame Clinton for this so called terrible thing.  When in fact it was their congress that wanted it.  They never want to mention that.

er-doc can't be a real MD due to the fact he believes all that conservative hype and anyone with an education elevated to a doctoral status really must see the truth beyond  the hype and act/think accordingly...

KCF - I also did not vote for Mr. Obama.  Now that he is our future President, I will support him. 

I believe him to be an extremely intelligent individual and hopefully he will be able to put together a team to help pull us out of this mess, that both parties created.  At this point, with the situation he is facing, he may be feeling like he "lost" the election.

He has to avoid the fringe elements of both the liberals and conservatives.  Hopefully he will be able to keep government involvement as minimal as possible. 

I'm too old to believe in Santa - but, there has to  be a few honest politicians still out there. 

"I'm too old to believe in Santa - but, there has to  be a few honest politicians still out there."

Don't count on it. 

It begs the question whether throwing all of them together in the same place and letting them fight it out makes for good nation-building.  I think the USA as a superpower took a terminal course about 50 years ago.  We're going to wave our little flag all the way into 3rd world irrelevancy.  The next century will belong to the Russians and the Chinese.

Better hurry and go join them then, since you already stated earlier that you wouldn't fight for 'this America'.

Squinkydink is a great name for him,, wish i thought of it. He's sounds like a republican who cannot bear the truth,,,they lost and he cannot bring himself to say it so he keepsgrasping at whatever he can to justify his beliefs. Maybe one day he will see the light.

He is getting it from Limbaugh quoting Kenneth Lamb spouting. He is enlightened enough to do his own research.

   Good for you I write American.  

bigprong,

I think we should all start writing in HUMAN whenever we come across that stupid question.  I know I will now start doing that whenever possible

Me to and if they were to try to deport me they would have to do it in pieces. LOL. As an American mutt I can say I am proud of those that have come before me and have worked, fought and even died so we could post our thoughts without fear. So for all us mutts, no matter what color the skin, lets stand together and continue the fight for freedom .

Couldn't have said it better,time to move on to things that really matter.

I fully agree with you, Sandra. We all want to talk a good game about how we are all Americans, but there are still too many of us who see a person's color first and foremost, and that's how we see them from there on out. For better or worse, it's what it is. I like to think that Obama will be an excellent role model for all the American mutts just like him to see, and regain some of the hope that's been beaten out of them for too long.

Is Christopher Hitchens a natural born American?

Christopher Hitchens is British.  He might be naturalized, but definitely Britishborn.

Sandra, thank you.  It would be so wonderful if America can be a truly color blind nation where race was not an issue.  Perhaps, one day it will happen but it will never happen until we can truly look at our awful racist past and deal with it and admit it.  It was obvious at those rallies that we have a very long way to go and the mere fact that we are talking about race at all proves it.

Well, if you have a palette of paints and you mix black and white, you get GRAY. So if color is all that matters then quit calling him black or white, he is neither, he is HUMAN.

"Christopher Hitchens is British.  He might be naturalized, but definitely British born."

Kavlaq.  thank you I knew that.  Just my fledgeling attempt at satire. 

thank you, also, I got your email.

Southbeach,

The reason that we are having this conversation this morning is because it is a slow day for the media.  I do agree with you.

   Newsvine has to exercise their trolls on the weekend also I guess.

No. Obama did not graduate #1 at Harvard Law.  Where did you hear that?  He has refused to release his grades.  He was chosen as a compromise candidate to be editor of the Harvard Law Review, which I have been told all minority students were invited to apply for, in a meeting of the students chosen to be on the review.  Please let us know your source which says Obama was #1.  Also...something like 70% of his law school class graduated with honors.

kscolorado -

You're right - Obama did not graduate #1 from Harvard Law school. Southbeachsammy mis-spoke (or 'mis-typed'). But - it's not lost on us that you're "picking gnat turds out of the pepper" in an attempt to call into question the other good points he makes and to create a rationale for bringing up disparaging remarks.

The New York Times reported on Obama's being chosen as the president of the Law Review in 1990. In that article they describe the presidency as "the highest student position at Harvard Law School" - so it may be understandable that southbeachsammy may have thought Obama had graduated first in his class.  In fact, Harvard Law School does not 'rank' its students until graduation.  Further - no candidate released his/her grades.  I can't see where they have any bearing on Obama's Presidency.  Are you thinking that he's not qualified to be President if he got a "B" in Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School?

You try to cast aspersions on Obama's selection as the president of the Law Review - but you get your argument muddled.  First - being selected to be one of the Law Review's editors is a prestigious accomplishment in itself, and yes - minority students are invited - all students are invited to apply to be an editor of the Law Review. The selection process and qualifications are described at http://www.harvardlawreview.org/membership.shtml. Obama was not, as you say, "a compromise candidate to be editor of the Harvard Law Review" - he was described as being a 'compromise candidate for president of the Law Review - something that you try to imply is a bad thing. (See, southbeachsammy doesn't have a monopoly on misstating things).

The notion that Obama was a 'compromise candidate' originated in a March 2008 Vanity Fair article.  We understand that he was a 'compromise' candidate largely because he did not hold a polar view on things, and was willing to hear all sides of an argument before making a decision when we read:

"In his second year, he ran for president of the Law Review, and after a marathon voting session was elected on the 19th ballot, as an overt compromise candidate.

Nancy McCullough, an entertainment lawyer in Los Angeles, was a year behind Obama at Harvard and recalls him as "someone who wanted the group decisions to reflect the group's intent, not Barack's intent. One of the reasons people were comfortable putting him in the presidency was because he was going to listen closely enough that, whatever decisions had been made, people would know that he had [listened]. He was masterful in how he facilitated people's talking.

"I actually would have been happier for him to say sometimes, 'This is how we're doing this, and shut up!'"

The Law Review 'compromised' by selecting a middle-of-the-road person that is willing to listen to different viewpoints and to encourage compromises between folks that hold different viewpoints.  That seems like a good thing to me.  You should read the entire article - it answers a lot of questions about Obama's life the folks are always complaining about as being 'hidden'.

Finally - Harvard Law grades on an 8.0 system.  Students who graduate with a general average of 7.20 and above are honored with the distinction of graduating summa cum laude.  The top 10% of the class, excluding summa, are honored with the distinction of graduating magna cum laude. Obama graduated magna cum laude, so regardless of the proportion of the class that graduated "with honors" - Obama graduated in what would be about the top 10% of his class.

'The Law Review 'compromised' by selecting a middle-of-the-road person that is willing to listen to different viewpoints and to encourage compromises between folks that hold different viewpoints'   rls8r

'Finally - Harvard Law grades on an 8.0 system.  Students who graduate with a general average of 7.20 and above are honored with the distinction of graduating summa cum laude.  Obama graduated magna cum laude, so regardless of the proportion of the class that graduated "with honors" - Obama graduated in what would be about the top 10% of his class.'  rls8r

rls8r.  Thank you for your excellent research and exercise of reason and logic.  Thank you for bringing clarity where others would confuse facts to deceive.  We're indebted to you. 

rls8r...The 10% magna, etc., by Harvard Law School which is now the rule was not in place at the time Obama went through.   The source you quote, with which I was aleady familiar, was instituted in 1999 in response to the very large number (upwards of 70% obtained honors...quoted in a Harvard Alumni Bulletin article about an outstanding student in 2000) of students obtaining honors with the grade inflation.  I personally do not believe Obama graduated in the top 10% of his class, but cannot know this.  Similarly, you canot know that he DID graduate in the top 10%, as the rules you quote were not in place in Obama's time.

Since when is bringing up a fact "disparaging"?  When you don't agree with it?

My error regarding "editor".  My limited understanding equated editor with the title "president" of the Law Review...in fact the editorial position is called "editor-in-chief", the one to which Obama was elected, as well as president of the Law Review.  I am and was certainly familiar with the significance of the position.

You state that no candidate released his/her grades. True.  But McCain released his class standing at the US Naval Academy, even though it was incredibly low.  Obama did not.

I am indeed troubled by the many things Obama seems to have hidden from us during his campaign, and the failure of the media to investigate him.  The liberal media, his supporters, found out more about Joe the plumber in 24 hours, in their efforts to discredit him when he simply asked a question of Obama that revealed Obama's true political philosphy, than they did about Obama in a year and a half.  And I cannot trust Obama as he promised to accept public financing, then went back on his word because it was expedient...and many of us have raised eyebrows at Obama's denial of relationships with Chicago figures.

Some of the best criminals in the world have had genius IQ's, but I wouldn't want them leading our nation.  Only time will tell if BO is the man so many seem to believe him to be or just another very smart criminal.

How many black people, educated and uneducated, voted for Obama simply because he is black? No other reason than black. How about the 90+ something black lady who never voted for a presidential candidate before Obama simply because they were all white? Believe me it made me sick observing the ignorance of the toothless folks who I am sure were carefully chosen to prove a point of view in the interviews regarding their racist reason for not voting for Obama.  Don't generally label the states where they were from, I am sure the person filming sought out ignorant hicks who did not share the general thought of their regions. If you fully believe the creator of the film then you are as ignorant as those he interviewed. Racism goes both ways, or should I say all ways. As for the McCain-Pailen Rallies, were those people really the most visciously racist people on the planet? If they are, please explain, I would love to hear your reasoning.

Carl,

Being white, I have never experienced the hate and viciousness that has been shown to blacks in our country.  You say racism goes both ways and this is true, but when I look at what African Americans have had to put up with from the white commmunity I understand  why some are racist towards us.  So when the elderly black women who never voted before chose Obama, can't you see why?  To call her toothless and ignorant is just another racist slur. 

   Goes back to the laws of physics that state for every action there is an equal reaction. Racists like to use that line that blacks and other monority'sare racists which is for the most part untrue. They are racist against racists period. If you take the time to sit and talk to a black person you will find this is true. Above a troll mentione Jesse Jackson Hymie town remark as being racist. How is that true? I first heard that term used by whites. It is not a racial term it has to do with control of money.

I did not refer to the elderly black lady as toothless and ignorant, it was directed to the ignorant white people interviewed in the states the writer mentioned who I responded to. And those white people who are racist in the video were obviously sought out by the film creator to pin a label on these regions and ienforce regional stereotypes, a kind of racism or regional prejudice if you will. Jesse Jackson makes his living perpetuating racism. What would he do if we all just got along and no one hated? It would be a better world but he and Al would be out of work. Of course because I am white and I responded I am labeled a racist.  You see, blacks and other minorities can say anything, its justified because they were enslaved. "Reverse discrimination" is ok because I enslaved these people. I know a lot of black people, I am good friends with them, they agree with me for the most part, and I see and understand their views too.  Racism goes both ways sorry. 

If I as a white man claim I did not vote for Obama because I dont like black people because of how I was treated all my life you would call me a racist.  I dont live in the white community and I never knew anyone from the black or hispanic or irish or italian community. All these "community" labels do is promote a perceived segregation of people into groups. Dont label me. I am an American citizen period. The sooner we all look at someone as a person and not a white, black ect or a Jew, Catholic, Methodist ect or an Native whatever, Arab, Oriental ect or a democrat, republican, liberal, conservative or a mixture of all of these labels the sooner we will have a more productive society.

I agree with Carl. I just read that this election had the highest turnout in over 40 years. You don't think that blacks came out in record numbers because Obama was a great candidate? He was black. Racism pure and simple. Who brought race up the most in this election? BHO.

On election day, I was in line to go to the booth when a black woman in her 50's came stomping up and complained the machine wouldn't take her ballot. She voted for everyone running for president instead of only one. Obviously, she had never voted before and had no clue.  Why this election? Just a fluke? I don't think so but to say that is racist.

Blacks don't vote for candidates just because they are black.....if that were true Jesse Jackson would have gotten the democratic presidential nomination in 1984 when he ran. A black voter will vote for a white person over a black person, unless the black voter thinks A.) the black person can actually win and B.) the black person hopefully won't get shot.  I think more than just looking at black voter turnout I think that this election had substantial increases in voter turnout in ALL RACES (especially Latino). Rather than Obama's race being the main reason for black people or any other race people voting for Obama, I think it is his message and inspirational oration.   To say that there is a higher voter turnout in one race because of his race is like saying the higher voter turnout in the college vote is soley attributed to his younger age rather than the major nationwide (and extremely efficiently run) voter register drives of the Obama campaign (+ his well-delivered message).

I think its fair to say that all "minorities" (which when combined add up to a lot more than the current "majority") voted at a much higher percentage than they ever have in the past.  Course BO was promising to share the wealth with them all, so why not go out and vote for the man who is going to give you a handout?  Here, in Texas, our local town was swarmed with latinos wanting to vote.  They couldn't speak a word of english and most were turned away because they were not legal citizens, but they were sure ready to vote for the man that is going to give them all amnesty so they can live the American dream and collect more money from our tax dollars.

Now that BO has been elected, I hope that he will consider seriously what these votes cost our country.  I hope that he will put the CITIZENS (all American people, regardless of race) as his main priority.  If there was one time that I wanted to see an elected official not keep all those promises he made, it is now.

i am truly tied of people for Latin American and the Caribbean claiming there is no "race" problem in their countries.

Caribbeans and Latin Americans have a caste system which values light skin and European features  over dark skin  "African"looks in every walk of life.

If truth be told the United states also has the same porblem

it doesn't matter what your parents were, where you come from or what you call yourself.

the darker your skin, the bigger your lips, wider your nose and the  more nappy your hair is the more discrimination you will encounter.

Just becaue you call it something differnt doesnt mean it;'s not a problem

   I beg to differ. Having spent a lot of time in other country's especially the ones you mentioned I can say that is not true. The problem here is caused by guilt. We should never have imprted slaves in the first place. Religion states that we are all Gods children. Racists are just looking for an excuse for what their ancestors did when they denegrate the very people who helped them build this country.

I don't know, I'm just not of the opinion that the agricultural contribution of slavery constitutes much in the way of "helping build this country".  The industrialized South, after all, lost the civil war.  I'll wager 99.9% of this country was built via legitimate means.  And no, I don't think racially aware people are looking to excuse their ancestors actions.  More than likely, racists have just found themselves victimized at a number of points in their life by the racial other, and find the best way to avoid problems is to pay attention to the details.

"We should all make the effort to become color blind"   "I am an American, Caucasian living in the Caribbean with mixed race children."    - Laurie-772484

Laurie,

Blindness is preferable to sight only if what one sees causes them to be unjust in their estimation of another.

As a parent of mixed race children, would you prefer not to see them?  The sight of your own children only causes you to appreciate them more.  Because you look at them with maternal love.

Perhaps if we look at others with unconditional love we would really see them and duly esteem them.  Then where would be the need for blindness?  We should be blind to prejudice, bigotry, discrimination.   Not to each other's skin color which is part of what makes us all so beautifully and uniquely human. 

 "I'm just not of the opinion that the agricultural contribution of slavery constitutes much in the way of "helping build this country."

Bob, was the contribution of slavery merely agricultural?  If slavery was not a means use to build the wealth of areas of this country, that would come to be called the Confederate States, what then was its purpose?  If it provided for and contributed to the wealth of slave owners. did it not thereby effect the economy of the antibellum nation and thereby help to build this country?

Is the term "racially aware people" used to denote people such as white separatists, supremacist, or what we commonly called racist? 

Sorry but the guilt thing doesn't cut it with me.  My family arrived from Germany in 1865... so we were never a part of the population that was in anyway connected to the slavery in this country.  Not every white person in this nation had ancestors that partook in that disaster, so why should we all be unfairly judged as bigots and racist?  None of my ancestors were guilty of that crime against the blacks that were brought as slaves so I refuse to feel guilty over what has been long gone and overwith for over a hundred years already.

A man should be judged by his actions.  If he steals, lies, rapes, murders, then he is a worthless peice of human flesh.  If he is a person that cares for his family, contributes to society, is kind to others and lives an honest life, then he is a man worth knowing. 

This constant bringing up of the historical wrongs done to ancestors is useless.  It is what incites racism and as long as neither side is willing to put it in the past where it belongs, there will never be peace and harmony in this nation.  At what point does this begin to happen?  At what point will the blacks of this nation stop trying to make the whites feel that they are guilty of the perceived wrongs?  There is not a man alive today that lived during that time in history.  Why can't it be let go and instead of it being us vs them, why can't it be we... the people of this nation?  It is not just the white people of this nation that can be very bigotted.  There is a fair share of that in any population, whether they be white, black, asian, latino or native american.  Time to leave the past where it belongs and move forward.