UAW sacrifices look to some like surrender

Entitlement syndrome......deserve the same treatment as the Air Traffic Controllers in the past.

Rep.  Barney Frank

It's gret that you are critical of the measure, too bad you (like the rest of congress) were on vacation instead of seeing htis important issue to a close.  Mr. Bush only did what an 'executive' must...act.  I think we see the fundimental difference here between legislators and executives.

UAW is part of the problem. Certainly not a solution....Its funny how some of the other plants in the South have no union and they're happy as little clams....

WOW,

all the way down to 24 an hour....

let these people fold, of just get the nationalization over with and sieze them so at least taxes can be a controlled loss..I am tired of this,,we gave our country away years ago, factories left fitchburg mass, well before Clinton, by the time all these union guys and who ever gets done taking pay cut down to 24 dollars,,,they will just do bad things to the parts or cars anway like, file the break lines thin...

Anyone who buys an american car after the union gangs sabbotage them can do so at thier own risk,,,these unions are gangs,,,and if the gov. interfears all cars will be dangerous,,,becuase they will do something on purpose...I knew too many union people from the factories that closed in fitchburg ma...they sat around drinking and plotting...good luck if you ever buy a big 3 car again,,,they cant make them good now,,what makes you think thats going to cahnge..

The fact is the American car companies did this to themselves, and the UAW was an important part of that. We taught the Japanese how to build cars, and while they focused on making a BETTER CAR, the American car companies focused on making MORE MONEY. They should have focused on quality. The unions focused on doing less work and also making MORE MONEY. The unions should have focused on building a better car. There is a good reason that the UAW have not been able to unionize the Honda, Nissan and Toyota factories here in America. And those are the plants that will be staying open.

The union has ran its course and need to stop cutting it own throat . Wake up it's reality time with all the perks being taken away. The job banks being paid 95-100% of your pay that's plain crazyand free health care for life even more crazy. The union leadership has tunnel vision and needs think global and not just down the street. Build better cars and products and people will buy the cars win back customers.People want a quaility product they are paying 300-400 dollars a month they don't want junk or something they will spent so much time at the dealership that other workers think they work there.

I find it amazing that everyone seems to hate the unions when they are the ones who have done their best to help the American worker. I don't see anyone so against the white color workers who make six figure salaries even if the companies they work for fail! You people think $10/hr. is a fair wage? Try to raise a family on that wage, forget owning a home, try buying food, and then if you don't have medical your done for with just one illness. Most of the people I know now are strugling to make ends meet. Usually both husband and wife are working sometimes two jobs.             

 I retired recently, actually forced out. I found my pension doesn't give me enough money in today's economy to get by. So I am working another job at a much lower pay rate to get by. My old job that I worked for almost 40 years was union, but the company got the union to make concessions and we took wage cuts and lost benefits including reduced medical and pension cuts.. Those concessions are also how I ended up forced out, because they had started a two tier wage system allowing them to hire new workers at only $12/ hr., I made closer to $20/ hr. The irony is the company has moved most operations out of country, so the plant is going to be closing down over the next year, so all this was for nothing!

My father once told me before he died "son there is always someone willing to pay  someone to do something" even in this mess we are in now. Yes I agree that the upper level managment of the big three needs to be cut as well. The union has gained way too much power even to the point of we will STRIKE if we don't get our way and you the American public will have to suffer. Another thing my father taught me was always give your employer a fair days work and so I lived by that and have worked for companys who returned the favor. Yes some companys did not and they always had big turnovers in employees. I was loading freight in southern California in the 70s and as a member of the teamsters I had to ask each time I got done with my alloted loads and the shift manager would have to stop what he was doing and go to the other workers and ask if they wanted to stay and load the trailer causing a delay in time because I was on the bottom of the list. I got to stay most of the time. My dad once had a gun stuck in his face when he pulled up to a gate to unload pipe and a strike was going on, now dad new nothing of this strike and man said park your truck or that fellow there will shoot and my father told him he was trying to feed his family just like they were and he had nothing to do with any of their problems and he  put the truck in gear and told the guy to move and drove the truck inside the yard. Greed is what took hold of the union and I also believe the interaction of the mob and other crooks. We can get a product or service from a non union person and receive as good as the union worker even sometimes better after all the union job is protected so they can be crappy and they don't care, not all but there is those few just as in non union. I have seen first hand what can happen to a small company who says no to union people they get the right employee and brainwash them and then all of a sudden the turmoil within the work force begins or when an independent self employeed contractor bids on a job and they are rejected because they are not union and if they are accepted then the company must pay them the same as the union person and thats the good part of it. Unions have their place but their power needs to be cut somewhat and that I agree with when it disrupts the flow of transportation or causes the American public who are not union to suffer for the union greed. They already receive better wages and health care than the rest of us and we are the ones paying for it when we buy union made products because the price is always higher and its no wonder the import of all forign products are doing well, some people just can't afford the made in America brand anymore its time for a change folks. If you accept a job from someone then you agree at that time to their pay and what comes with it or you have the right to decline or quit, its your right in America. ITS CALLED FREEDOM 

Quoted from SRretire:

I find it amazing that everyone seems to hate the unions when they are the ones who have done their best to help the American worker. I don't see anyone so against the white color workers who make six figure salaries even if the companies they work for fail! You people think $10/hr. is a fair wage? Try to raise a family on that wage, forget owning a home, try buying food, and then if you don't have medical your done for with just one illness. Most of the people I know now are strugling to make ends meet. Usually both husband and wife are working sometimes two jobs. 

You call it helping American workers.  I call it killing American companies.  What about the people who work in non-union states?  They still manage to make a living.  Unions are way outdated and there is more than enough government regulation to do the things that unions were created to do.  We have OSHA, the labor department, and the EEOC.

In a free economy, you need to produce a desirable product at a reasonable cost or else the competition drives you out of business.  American build quality has been junk for many years as lazy union workers have milked it for all its worth.  Quality has improved recently, but can it compete with similarly priced Japanese and German cars?  I seriously doubt it.

Furthermore, unions are responsible for many jobs being shipped overseas to countries where people are grateful just to have work.  They don't have the same entitlement mentality and they accept their lower standards of living.

Its time to face the fact the unions are BAD for business and that they are crippling American businesses.

Unions are a bit out of control these days. Seriously what do Actors or Professional athletes that make millions need a Union for?

At a news conference in Chicago yesterday, President-elect Barack Obama said that workers should not be the ones "taking all the hits" and that all stakeholders "are going to have to play a part in this process."

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the committee overseeing much of the government financial rescue efforts, was far tougher.

"The president has added an unfair assault on working men and women, which could require them to accept a disproportionately large reduction in what is currently legally owed to them," he said in a statement. "I am particularly opposed to the notion . . . that could give foreign auto companies in effect the ability to dictate wages for all American auto workers."

Frank said that because those requirements were "unilaterally inserted" by Bush, the Obama administration "should take whatever steps are necessary to remove them."

LET'S SEE   gettlefinger, obama and frank.  The 3 fu&%ing stooges!!  BOO HOO the autoworkers have to take a paycut to keep thier job and thier crying about it.  The dumbasses just don't get it.  The UAW bankrupted these companies and so far bush has pulled them out because the senate couldn't work together.  The democrats couldn't get thier pork to go thru(ie;raises for federal judges, harry reid's work, he's a piece of $hit)

Obama and frank are so far in the UAW's pocket from contributions(Gee you think some of those contributions could have went into the retirement fund)that theyr'e already trying to change the conditions.  Jan 20 is gonna be a sad f#$king day.  Can't wait to see how much it's gonna cost the taxpayers when obama and his dem butt buddies start handing out more money to the UAW(not the big 3 because it's not gonna do anything for them)and all the pork and special intersets that they throw into the pot.  Enough said, autoworkers are too stupid and greedy to take a paycut and try to keep thier jobs.  Gettlefinger knows the dems will payback all those contributions and the UAW won't lose anything.  This whole scenario is gonna tear this country apart.  Hopefully there are some intelligent people in congress who will try to block all the crap that is coming

Its about time that the unions ar getting the bad publicity that they deserve. I was once a union worker, and a lot of the time, my union dues exceeded my take home. Not to mention that when they called for strikes, I was forced to try and live on less that one weeks wages for the whole month.

I will not argue the fact that at one time they were a needed service for the workers, they forced employors to pay decent wages, ended the sweat shops and child labor. But We out grew the need of unions years ago.

I had a friend that was faced with either closing up shop or having the workers vote the union out, his employee's chose to get rid of the union. NOW.... they take more moeny home each week, have better health coverage and a much happier work enviorment. Not to mention my friend still have his busness.

When employors work with their employee's, pay decent wages, help with the health coverage. WHO needs a union that does nothing most of the time except stand there each payday with their hand out, sometimes taking more than you will take home?

I am very happy to see this happen, besides, why should we have to pay more for something simply so the union can pay full wages to an employee that's been laid off?? No one else in this country gets that kind of umbrella of security.

After all, if your laid off, most of the time its because someone else is doing the same job better than you. NOT because the work is no longer there.

What you  people do not realize is the Gov.,during the wwII war .Manufacture were building eguipment to fight the war and jobs were created and the more people hired for the job,they made more money.That carried over to this day.that included the lazy people you have. The companies are just as guilty to have let this keep going on..So do not blame it all on the union.I do not think some of you have any idea what and why union were created in the first place.Before they came about,they were sweatshops and not a very nice place to work and got away with thing you do not want to know..Yes things has changed and can not compair today with yesterday.But ,if it was not for unions ,this change would not have happen..So the unoins like any other ,GOV,Companys,Do have bad Habits too.I'm sure you have the same feeling towards are GOV.  I have spent 26 years with the URW and was not happy with the way it was run.But it beat what it could have been with out a uion. The company I worked for ,did more to anger the union people ,then to make things work.So I say the company was just as much fault . Sorry to say we are heading back to those sweatshops days.HISTORY DOES REPEAT

the unions should stay to continue to protect all american workers but they need to change there mind set pay for PERFORMANCE not entitlment bring health care to everyone at an affordable price based on wage and years of service not 100% company paid becouse you pay your union dues each month and pay Perfomance based bounuses my company does these things as a non union parts suppler to gm and dodge theres no one complaining about it.if thats what it takes to save the big 3 the unions should support such a deal.just my thoughts.

I work in an industry that is more competive than the auto industry. This is the commecial appliance industry. We have been in buisiness for about 3.5 yrs. We have grown from one factory to 3. We are privately owned and have even purchased manufacturing that was preiviously done in Mexico and have returned jobs to the US. Our owner is a true entreprenuer and I know he is in buisiness to succeed and I am in it with him although I am a white collar worker and do not make 24 bucks an hour and have a degree and a world of experience. We need more like him. Although not as rich as an AWU worker I believe I have a future because we are driven to compete or die.

I hope everyone here took time to read other comments, there are some great perspectives. The fact is that the senior management at the big three and the UAW have both been arrogant. The big problem is there is no cohesion, everyone is out to get theirs, principals of business be damned. I also have been a member of a union, and the union helped provide me with a better wage and it is that union wage impacts my compensation as a non-union worker, and it is better because of it. That having been said, there exist some strange phenomenon that occurs as people make more money; they some how believe that they have to work less. The union was always more interested in what they were going to get than what they were going to offer. And management was always more interested in what they were going to take than what they were going to give. Neither side ever offered anything; the union never said, what can we as a group do to help the business be successful, and management never said hey, we had a record year, here is a bonus, but as soon as business fell off, they looked to union membership to take layoff days. I left the union for an opportunity as a shift supervisor, funny, the union guys all considered me "management" while I was never made to feel like I was part of the management team. All that I was was a liason between labor and management; and the two sides deserved each other. If anyone here believes that either labor or management is somehow better than the other, you are mistaken, and once again both sides deserve each other, but it should not be at a cost to the rest of us.

This is a totally bogus conversation. First the damage done to our domestic auto industry by the UAW cannot be overlooked nor underestimated. Had their pay been even only 50% higher than the average American worker for the past 50 years the Big Three would have hundreds of billions of dollars in cash reserves today & not need a dime from the poor taxpayer who makes a lot less than these professional blackmailer / extortionists. And they still continue the blackmail & extortion today. "Preserve our wages or go bankrupt" is the unions posture even today & the tactic of threatening the Big Three with bankruptcy every time they go on strike is what hi jacked the big three in the first place. As for the unions being the only ones to be asked to sacrifice, the ignorance of this statement shows the problems and financial ignorance of the left. The shareholder's equity has been wiped out, the lenders face recovering pennies on the dollar of, the suppliers face bankruptcy because the Big Three can't pay their arrears, the taxpayers are having to pony up a few hundred billion and on & on and on this silliness goes. I would outlaw all unions (big chance with the Obamacrats who are in the unions's pockets) and sentence the UAW leadership to life in prison. I'm not forgiving the Auto executives their exorbitant pay & bonuses should be clawed back as should the overpayment to the unions. The whole thing is so stupid it's sad. Chief to blame is 50 years of a union monopoly and chokehold on the industry. Disgusting! Gettelfinger should get life doing hard time in prison. Unions did some good things (albeit they were alwasy rife with corruption) 75 years ago but they have outlived their usefulness. 

Slashing worker's pay to match a non-union wage is crap.  What if the standard of living in the state with the non-union car maker is less than in the state with the union? 

The workers'  pay is not what is driving up the price of a car to $27,000. 

I've heard business directors (over the age of 50) saying workers' pay is the highest expense on the balance sheet.  Duh!  If the business doesn't have workers, there is no business!

WE need a better health care system.  Insurance companies should be limited to a specific profit amount or turned into a not-for-profit entity.  CEO and executive pay should be limited to any government pay.  I overheard a doctor say some upper management person in the insurance company made more than he did (close to a million).  

American business can no longer afford to supply health care.  What you pay is a small portion of what the company pays.  Some businesses also pay a portion of your medical expenses AND the insurance premium (supposedly to lower the premium)--what a scam from the insurance company.

Want to bring jobs back to the U.S.--find a way to take health insurance out of the company's balance sheet and we pay a premium based on our income.

It is a brave new world.  I believe that the unions at one time served a good purpose - better pay, better working conditions and other protections for workers - but it has gone too far.  No one and I do mean no one should expect the taxpayers in the country to pay for a jobs bank or the high level of benefits UAW members currently enjoy. 

It would be interesting to see how the union members react.  I saw one union worker intrviewed on the news and he said he didn't know why they should have to reduce their pay to the same as a non union worker.  This is so wrong headed I can't believe it.  This is a critical situation - would seem to me that giving up some things is better than being without a job period.  If the car companies would slide into bankruptcy ALL their union benefits would disappear.

Unions have served not only its members over time but all workers in the long run. They brought higher wages, benefits etc. that would never have been forthcoming had workers relied on industry to voluntarily provide them.  Look what industry has done now, in reverse. They pay for less our insurance, retirements and the like.  When you have a monopoly as labor unions had in certain industries you can dictate your fair share (take a look at the NFL, NBA and MLB unions and how wages have skyrocketed in the sports field).  However, in practical terms once your grasp gets too tight and there is nothing further to shake from the tree you have to relent.  The UAW had a choice to either give back or lose much of what they gained over the last 70 years.  The trend now is to go away from unions but don't count them out, at the rate we are going now they will be back stronger then ever in the future.

Although I do agree with the universal stance of all unions that company executives should take huge compensation cuts in times of economic trouble, I simply don't understand why the various United States unions would seemingly rather watch a company go belly up than lower their compensation to that commensurate with non-union workers.  The landscape of the American labor market has changed over the past decades, but it appears the various unions are hell bent on on driving a stake into the ground at the risk of running their employers into the ground financially and being on the unemployement line. 

Most people who have the chance to become"Fat,dumb,and Happy" as the saying goes will do so. It is the trivial few that do not that will really continue to succeed in this world. That is true in societies or buisiness. We may chastize ourselves in the US but if we will look around us the world is fastly catching up. If we return to what made us great we can go back to the future.

I think everyone should look at history.  Look what life was like for the adverage working American pre-union.  All of you thinking the union doesn't protect you, you would more than likely be making less than half of what you make now.  If your employer wasn't in fear of you and you co-workers unionizing, you would not have any benefits what so ever.  In the late 1800's and early 1900's workers would have to work very long hours for very little pay.  Working conditions were horrible.  The only reason OSHA exist is the unions.  It will be amazing how fast everyone wages will get cut if the big three and the UAW go down.  Most on this board think they will keep living their happy lives if the Big Three disappear.  It will interesting to hear everyone crying when the result hits all of you.

So once again it's the workers who get the butt end of the deal, not one mention of CEOs taking a cut or Union Big Wigs.  It's all about lowering our standard of living in this country and putting in more government control over our lives as workers.  Limiting the financial institutions we have to do business with so they will know every cent you make and how you spend it.  The budgets in the federal government is beyond repair and the states are just as bad, but I noticed all the self-serving so called representatives gave themselves hefty pay increases again and are still taking their long paid vacations, trips and breaks.  This is a bunch of bull and not one dime of the so called bailout that was such a rush to push through has been used to clean up the mortgage mess as was intended.  It's easy to spend money when it's someone elses and our goverment has run amuck with the taxpayer's checkbook.

Once again the UAW accepts no role in the present mess, just a union of "victims." Those furloughed for the coming month still continue to receive 95% of their salary. Mr. Gettlefinger pockets more than $150,000 a year. Obama, Frank, the Dems and the UAW seem determined to sing the same old song, but the American public in poll after poll wants to hear a new tune on the radio as they drive off in their American manufactured Toyotas and Hondas.