Hobbyists try genetic engineering at home

I don't think you realize the capability of this technology. We are playing God and we do not have the understanding to do so.

Horrible she is putting her neighbors at risk to chemical exposure.  See post below.  These types of experiments are done in laboratories for a reason.  They generate biohazardous, toxic material that must be properly contained and disposed of.

Schwyz and Steve, you have more to worry about then this. Anyone could build a weapon and kill thousands and thousands of people before they could be stopped. The thing is tho that Most of human kind do not want to kill. Bad things will and have happened from good people with smart minds. That does not mean you put a stop to any and everything that may hurt you. 

Some will sell snake oil, some will want to hurt you, but most of the few doing it will be doing it for the good of man.

"we are playing with god"---- I am a god fearing man. I think that all of mans abilities or tools were givin to us by god. Genetics are no different. As far as I know everything man does is part of gods plan. I by no means speak for others, that's just my thoughts. 

I don't care if she does the research.  I just don't want dangerous materials in residential areas or going into our landfills..........

The djinni is officially out of the bottle.

I sense the potential for ignorant hysteria.

 A lot of the experimentation involves items that are very volatile and like most experiments in very minute amounts.

This isn’t to say its completely harmless, but you're in more danger with the copious amounts of chemicals under your kitchen sink then you are with your neighbors most likely unsuccessful test tubes of glowing organic material (read: pigment based inks).

Knowledge is power and usually reserved to those that have the patience and tolerance to aquire it (and thus more likely to be level headed in general). One shouldn’t judge until you really understand the science behind the ‘magic’.

Less we should start burning the 'witches' and sending the scholars to death camps not unlike Cambodia's Kumar Rouge.

Great ... I think I get some nutrient agar and start culturing up some MRSA from my nasopharaynx and with a little selective pressure(and some antiobiotics) I think I can create some VSA or LR-MRSA(just like was recenly found in Spain) .. just a couple more resistant bugs and see I can create an ultra-potent hand cleanser and if it doesn't work I can just let "dump" the bacteria down the sink .....

Ethidium Bromide is toxic in microgram quantities.  I know because I work with the stuff.  Household chemicals have nothing on this stuff.......

Not so. I happened to look into the toxicology of ethidium bromide and found that the literature does not support its purported toxicity much. It's toxicity is lower than an alfalfa sprout extract.

There are studies that show ethidium bromide causes DNA damage in cell culture.

Ethidium bromide is used as a veterinary drug at a couple of milligrams per kilogram in cattle to cure trypanosomiasis.

There is a case of a graduate student who tried to commit suicide by injecting the entire lab's supply of ethidium bromide into her vein approximately 15 milliliters. She got most of it IV and some was injected subcutaneously. Some 4 hours later she got cramps, and went to an ER. She survived, just being watched until her symptoms subsided. No records of any long term damage.

Note also that there are several alternatives to ethidium bromide.

Didn't Einstein work at home? What about Bell. I say Hoorah for these people. Maybe some REAL cures will come from this. Careful... the powers that be will eventually shut down the internet because free access to information is a very dangerous thing. The truth is out there- but it ain't on the evening news! Knowledge is power.

3 words came to my mind.... I Am Legend.

This is selfish. If you dont have the proper training or facility to safely conduct these experiments then you shouldn't be doing it.  This can go two ways - this sets precendent for every looney to have chemicals in their house and claim, "hobby"---or they cn manufacture some real nice bud screwin around with those chems.

I thought about that to. Chilling consequences. Also pencil in Resident Evil, 28 days, and others.

Yeah, lets use zombie horror movies as basis to judge reality.

After all, look at all the super heros out there that have aquired their ability to fly (not to mention x-ray vision) from radiation exposure from leaky microwave oven doors. And don't get me started on the Russian zombies from comic rays on the space station!

Is sarcasm the next victim of fear based ignorance?

this is what happens when movies take the place of actual knowledge--people who relate their world through what movie it reminds them of. 

Billions of dollars go into research into finding cures for diseases--cancer, MD, MS--you name it.  And yet, for all of those billions, not one tiny bit of advancement has ever been made.  Not. One.  So please cut me a large break with this hand-wringing.  These people aren't performing brain surgery, and they sure aren't doing anything to YOU. 

BBaker,,,the reason no real advancments have come form all the money spent is becasue there is no money in a cure. The money is in the research and treatment. They are still kicking themsleves for curing polio...think of all the money lost on that one...lol

First off - science fiction is FICTION!

There now let's talk about biology.  The typical genetics lab is less toxic than the typical kitchen cleaner.  There will not be hazards of unknown origin seeping into your groundwater - sheesh!  I work in a genetics lab and there are very few precautions necessary.  I have never gotten ill nor do I know of anyone who has from the type of projects these tinkerers are doing.  If you are worried about some guy making the next superbug then you must realize that that is quite a different undertaking than what one can accomplish in one's garage.  It's the same as the difference between building a model airplane and building a new supersonic jet.

Chick, I just read your BS about cures and money.  Why don't you read a book whose title doesn't end with "...They Don't Want You to Know About" and maybe try actually learning some biochemistry.  Knowledge is for everyone, after all, except those who choose to ignore it.

Honestly that line about not being able to make money being the reason that AIDS or cancer isn't cured is for simpletons who are too lazy to really look hard enough for the real answers.  AIDS is diabolical.  Cancer is thousands of different diseases.  Both have complex genetics and are largely unaffected by conventional therapies. 

The danger of this is no different than the danger of illegals coming into the country with tuberculosis.  When the tuberculosis carrier coughs or sneezes the tuberculosis is in the droplets that hang in the air and are breathed in by an unsuspecting healthy person.

The federal government is doing anything about stopping that seriously dangerous situation, so why would they try to stop people from experimenting with DNA at their kitchen table or garage?

Frankly, you are more endangered by your friendly neighborhood meth cooker! I can assure you;  they do not dispose of residual byproducts according to EPA or OSHA rules....

The thin film of dust on your Chinese imported computers, electronics, and its packaging material are very carcinogenic too, better sign off and trash your computer ASAP. (or send it to me if its the latest model).

I happened to look into the toxicology of ethidium bromide and found that the literature does not support its purported toxicity much. It's toxicity is lower than an alfalfa sprout extract.

There are studies that show ethidium bromide causes DNA damage in cell culture.

Ethidium bromide is used as a veterinary drug at a couple of milligrams per kilogram in cattle to cure trypanosomiasis.

There is a case of a graduate student who tried to commit suicide by injecting the entire lab's supply of ethidium bromide into her vein approximately 15 milliliters. She got most of it IV and some was injected subcutaneously. Some 4 hours later she got cramps, and went to an ER. She survived, just being watched until her symptoms subsided. No records of any long term damage.

Note also that there are several alternatives to ethidium bromide.

I am certain that this woman and perhaps the some of the others doing this work have "The best of intentions" but we all know the road to disaster is paved with peoples "good intentions" If the materials she or others are using NOW is not deadly, (going by Johns research) but when do people doing this sort of thing EVER stop at the simple?

 What concerns me is what has been mention in almost a sarcastic way above but is very true...local Meth labs are dangerous, and there can be a direct connection between how that sort of thing got started and how this could end up.

 If people wish to do Biological or Chemical research, Home is not the place for it. For God sake I learned in 6th grade science that some chemicals are deadly and can hurt people. 1 little mistake, just one slip up doing research while watching the soap opera's are on TV (you laugh, you know it can happen!) and there goes the neighborhood...literally...This stuff is best done in professional labs with clean up equipment and proper facilities. I would hate to think the woman next door was cloning herself in her bathroom or some stupid @!$%# like that.

 Cheers! 

Steve- I pray your not MY neighbor! Maybe you are....your the guy who has the gun and the 8 foot high privacy fence, who is constantly in EVERYBODY's business.

Steve, ethidium bromide may be toxic, but a small jar will last years in a typical lab.  You can readily purchase much worse and dangerous chemicals at any local hardware store and in much larger quantities.  Sodium azide is also toxic, but is used in such extremely small amounts that it is inconsiquential here.  Azide is a preservative found in many things besides plasmid samples and there is a great possibility that you already have contacted it at some point in your life.  So if you're not dead yet this won't kill you either.

Don't let ignorant hysteria rule your lives people!

Then again go to your local hardware store  wal mart or napa  any toxic costick or volatile substance you wont can be gotten their .mustard gas  sarin you can find the recipes in any library should we close them . i have forced mutation on yest to improve my home made wines . the only real reason some one would have a problem with people doing this is it steps on their toes. that they didn't go to a collage and git a pile it higher and deeper (PHD) to do these thangs. and yes my splling sucks . 

Not necessarily, accidents do happen. Still, it does excite the imagination.

At least DIYers are highly unlikely to work on high-potency strains of fatal diseases and other stuff like that. Then there's the fact that compared to genetic engineering performed by e.g. Monsanto, what they're doing is a child's play.

Very true. I am reminded that the light bulb, and the telephone were developed in much the same, ie. garage science, way.

DOD is not working on pathogens, and has no interest in them, mainly because they are very bad weapons for armies to use. Plenty of people can cook up pathogens, but the key is getting hold of the genes needed.

DIYers are not synthesizing genes on their own, they are assembling them. If someone orders a gene from a source, they will be flagged and visited if the gene is "of interest."

John, I'd be very surprised if DoD didn't work on something like this. This is a perfect weapon, particularly if your own troops can be vaccinated, and if viruses can be engineered in such a way that they'd self-terminate after a predetermined time period. Poison water supply, wait until enemy dies off, move in.

dmitry:

The DoD does work with pathogens, but these days mostly to develop vaccines for pathogens in the environment.  Far from being a perfect weapon, viruses are inherently dangerous to develop.  The reason being, viruses have their own survival mechanisms and evolve incredibly fast.  That is why there are several new strains of the flu out every year and why the flu vaccine doesn't always.  Deploy a biological weapon and there will always be a few organisms that survive your "eradication program" and become part of the ecosystem, and they will soon mutate into something that your vaccine doesn't protect you from.

Nonsensical and reckless, absolutely.  With over 6 billion of us swarming over the planet like so many rats, I'm not sure that endangered is totally accurate - not yet at least.

endangered in the sense of man-made ills; pollutants, toxins, PCB's and everything else I can't think of right now, but I know what you mean, total destruction isn't quite yet on the horizon.

Not likely. Bigger risk at your local hardware store from chemicals there. Much larger.

Discoveries like those you describe usually happen unexpectedly. Probably just as likely to get one next week as any other week - even on 50 years from now.

"The arrogance of their ignorance is astounding." - and only surpassed by that of the 'scientists'.

The arrogance of their ignorance indeed. 

I would like to point out the exceptional hypocrisy in your statement.  You think that in your ignorance people shoud listen to what you so arrogantly say.

You first must understand the danger level if you are to compare it to something like teenagers driving semis.  I assure you it is more like mice riding skateboards.

truth is we do have the right to do what we wont . colleges and corporations are the problem not the solution . they are out for whats the most profitable  not what is needed  these independent gene hackers should not be stopped because they don't have a pill it higher and deeper (PHD) you can learn to do anything you wont to  if you are willing to learn and you don't need to go to a collage to do it  

Mitch--I've thought so much about many of the issues you brought up here. I was angered to find out that many drugs are tested for just a short time, maybe only 6 weeks and then, it only seems logical to me, that just because the particular test subjects didn't exhibit adverse reactions, certainly doesn't mean nobody will. Also, I was alarmed to find out that the FDA doesn't actually test, they just review the test information provided by the manufacturer. Now that's real smart !!

Malcolm,

I respect your views, but how do you propose [Uncle Sam] step in?  Search and seisure without a warrant, illegal wire tapping, monitoring everyone's online purchases, a reward program leading to the arrest and conviction of bio-dissidents?  Do you propose that ingenuity be prosecuted as a misdemeanor or a felony?  What do you propose as the punishment for independent thinking - jail time, community service, death penalty, deportation? Who should oversee the anti-thinking movement - local police, the FBI, NSA, CIA - I'm just curious.

Oh... do worry about the neighbor with the gun with the extended clip, the semi-auto which was converted to full-auto via directions on the web, the saw-off shotgun, etc...

Buffy and Eliot,  you lost me on that one.

We just meant there are lot more things which folks should worry about regarding their neighbors than them tinkering with DIY genetics engineering.  If people are worried about getting killed... worry about the neighbor with the gun, not the ones with the vat of yogurt.

Thanks, I agree.

all guns should be legal to . you should worry  about polatisions wonting to take them away . you should also  worry about the ons that wont to take the right to tinker with bio materal .

I just don't want life - animals - tortured and killed or scientists becoming modern-day Frankensteins, creating over-population, freaks of nature or ' new ' life forms. We have enough problems and messes to deal with.

George:

Which cells?

Do you even know what you are saying... or are you just stringing words together for fun?

Amen and then some.

I'm a thinking person.

Right now I'm thinking of all those teenage boys who sent out viruses onto the Internet just for the fun of seeing how many computers they could take down.

> Does anyone, with a brain, on this link really think those folks who want to do harm will be stopped by more laws/restrictions?

Probably not. Does that mean we shouldn't try?

Do you think that the government ought to be in the business of keeping people from getting nuclear weapons? Because its not hard to imagine a disease vector which would be a heck of a lot more dangerous.

Hmmmm... the lady being singled out here seems to be interested in protecting folks from ingesting melamine-laced dairy/other foods procucts.  She is doing her research on her own time while holding down a regular job.  If she does perfect this bio-dectective, I hope she does profit from it is some way, but , as you say, not at an insane price.

 There is .......... Zero........... I repeat .............. Zero ............. chance  of any DIYbiologist of ever coming up with a cure for any disease !!!

 How could I say something like this ?

 You have to have test subjects, none of these garage formulas or whatever anyone wants to call it, will ever get to administer (run a controlled test) with anything they come up with to a person that has cancer or any other disease, period .

Yes, there is a pretty good chance of a DIY biologist coming up with a cure for some disease(s). Very good actually.

I haven't been keeping up with it, but in addition to cell mutation, genetic code research would need test subjects like Brian points out, that's why I'm not too worried about it.

Thomas, that's my sentiment also on somebody holding  a large price tag on a patent. Sure like your slippery slope expression.

Ebola?  Are you kidding me?

Another irrational fear-based comment made out of total ignorance... don't folks have to take science classes in high school any more?  

Not going to happen. For one thing, the "hobbyist" would need to have that intention. Second, they would have to get hold of ebola virus, vaccinate themselves, and handle it in a facility where it won't escape. There are people with that intention, they are working on things like this overseas, not here. For one thing, people here can't get the materials without attracting a whole lot of attention.

Similar for anthrax. You can't "make anthrax". Well, the genes could be made, but only if we knew what they were, and that hasn't been determined yet. Anthrax can be collected from the wild many places in the USA and all over the world. It's not all that hard. What's hard then is to culture it, weaponize it and contain it.

Basically, genetic engineering has nothing to do with anthrax or ebola risk.

By the way, I am very paranoid.

John--your Bio page make the rest of us look like insignificant, moronic little lemmings(always wanted an opportunity to use that word). If I was wearing a hat, it would be off to you. Hope you attain your goals.

All ebola strains are treatment resistent - that is if there were treatments for them, they would be treatment resistent. Ebola outbreaks are self-treating - everyone who gets it dies before they can spread it very far. Funny how the more lethal a threat is, the less likely it is to spread - almost as if nature was designed that way.

I appreciate hearing your Ebola remark about spreading and not likely. Have to admit I've always been concerned about people travelling to Africa and other areas where so many of these diseases are prevalent and then bringing them back here. So now I have one less "fear". Glad to hear that we can't "make Anthrax", too.